Heavy Arrow Bow Workups - Arrow, Insert and Broadhead Recommendations

[wildernessmaster]

I absolutely know where you are coming from with this sentiment, I'm a blue collar guy and have had a hard time justifying a dozen shafts at some times in my life. Having said that, what I have come to realize is that I would much rather send a 20 dollar arrow build at a squirrel or rabbit rather than a 5$ build because the likelihood of that 20$ shaft surviving is far greater than 4x the lesser durable arrow. I too live the 1 weapon mantra, so much so that my target setups and hunting setups are typically the same bow. I even have a set of Day Six shafts I set up with glue in points for my field arrows to keep myself in alignment.

The problem is it is not a $20 arrow... Good arrows shafts are running $15-$20. A heavy single bevel broadhead is $30. Add $5-$10 for lighted nocks, $3-$5 inserts, then $3-$4 for vanes/fletching... sans any construction cost or time, I am sending a $50 - $70 arrow downrange at a rabbit.

An elk, hell yeah... A good whitetail deer, equally hell yeah... A turkey, maybe (given my lousy turkey hunting of the past 2 years )... but a rabbit... Nope.

It just doesn't make sense. Just like it wouldn't make sense to you if I took you rabbit hunting and handed you a 338 Lapua and told you to go buy the bullets to hunt. You would look at me like I had "stupid" on my forehead. A) there isn't going to be much left after you shoot it B) that's like $4 a bullet to kill a rabbit you could kill with a $.25 shotgun shell (or a .02 cent 22).

Add on top of that, that i have found that heavy arrows disappear or break more often. They disappear because they bury into things much deeper. They break because that heavy payload coming to a full speed abrupt stop in something like a tree tends to shatter the lighter weight elements (inserts, shafts, etc).

I am a heavy projectile advocate, don't get me wrong. However, "heavy" is always a relative quantity to what you are planning on doing with it. I don't crack pistachios with a Ram truck.

One of the things that resonates with me about RF direction that is lost with the "single bow" theory is the tuning. How can you tune a single bow system to shoot a 650+ gr arrow and a 400 gr arrow? At a minimum you would have to have different adjustments for your sights - if you could actually even get the equipment to tune to two different weights equally.

I know for a fact when I do the same with a precision rifle, I may, for instance, get my gun to tune a 160 class 308 bullet to a sub 1/2 moa level.... but getting it to do a 120, and 200 class bullets as well to 1/2 MOA is rare. Some guns have the barrel harmonics to maybe get 2 weight loads to that level, but most don't. Best you will get with the other loads is 1 moa'ish. Still good, but maybe not good enough if you are shooting a yote at 700 yards.

Don't know if this holds true to bows, but I am better to some level it does.

But maybe keep educating me and I might be selling off 2 bows

 

[dkime]

The problem is it is not a $20 arrow... Good arrows shafts are running $15-$20. A heavy single bevel broadhead is $30. Add $5-$10 for lighted nocks, $3-$5 inserts, then $3-$4 for vanes/fletching... sans any construction cost or time, I am sending a $70 arrow downrange at a rabbit.

I am asking you as a fellow roksliding friend, please do NOT spend 70$ per arrow. There are many many many people here who have killed more big game animals than the youtube channel you mentioned has even seen. I am not starting a mud slinging match in any way shape or form. I agree with a lot of what he says but building a heavy and effective arrow does not have to be nearly as expensive as you are thinking.

For small game I carry a slick trick rip trick in my quiver, there is not a single reason to shoot a rabbit with a broadhead when several companies make fantastic small game heads.

IF you are going down the FOC sh*t hole, you won't be shooting a lighted nock so that's not gonna be an issue. Most arrows come prefletched regardless of what you pick. I think my D6 setup was 194$ with components, in a 3 fletch configuration. That is 16$ per finished arrow before broadheads and there are a lot of pictures of animals that I won't be posting of which have fallen to this 515gr setup. Having said that, I shot GT pierces and Axis for years before I shot these. (More time with axis than pierces because the GT system is junk) All 3 of these arrows are intended to be a moderate to slightly heavy setup for the standard Midwest or east coast hunter shooting whitetail and end up being a fully capable arrow for large big game. The axis is going to cost more just because they don't see a need to reinforce their shafts.

In terms of your broadhead choice, thats gonna be on whatever game you're going after. But frankly, if you are considering shooting a single bevel at small game then that's more because you want to.

 

[wildernessmaster]

I’ve used axis 260s with brass inserts and iron will collars. Finished out at 580 grains. They fly around 285fps , but I’m shooting a heavy bow. 80lb/31.5” draw. The arrows have been incredibly durable and hit very hard. I’ve used ximpacts/pierce platinums in the past. I find my current setup with the axis is a simpler approach and is more durable. I’ve been very satisfied with their performance .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which Axis did you shoot (I assume you mean Eastons Axis)? There are about 5 incarnations of those.

 

[Beendare]

I like unleashing arrows in the woods....not only is it fun to shoot at stumps and such......it keeps me sharp and dialed in for a real opportunity. Thats one reason I keep my arrow cost down.

One of the things that resonates with me about RF direction that is lost with the "single bow" theory is the tuning. How can you tune a single bow system to shoot a 650+ gr arrow and a 400 gr arrow? At a minimum you would have to have different adjustments for your sights - if you could actually even get the equipment to tune to two different weights equally.

I know that^ can be done...I've done it.

I can tell you the one time I went to Australia, I tuned my 80# compound for a 825gr arrow....and then tried shooting the 440gr arrows I was shooting at the time- and they shot dead nuts on. We needed both....as there was a bunch of other stuff to shoot at there, pigs and stuff that I didn't want to fling arrows with $35 BH's at.

So I set up 2 sights on a dovetail....easy to swap out....and it worked like a champ. Shot a buff....and a pile of hogs.

 

[wildernessmaster]

I like unleashing arrows in the woods....not only is it fun to shoot at stumps and such......it keeps me sharp and dialed in for a real opportunity. Thats one reason I keep my arrow cost down.



I know that^ can be done...I've done it.

I can tell you the one time I went to Australia, I tuned my 80# compound for a 825gr arrow....and then tried shooting the 440gr arrows I was shooting at the time- and they shot dead nuts on. We needed both....as there was a bunch of other stuff to shoot at there, pigs and stuff that I didn't want to fling arrows with $35 BH's at.

So I set up 2 sights on a dovetail....easy to swap out....and it worked like a champ. Shot a buff....and a pile of hogs.
View attachment 190376

Excellent to know... Thank you.

 

[TravisIN]

Man seeing you want an arrow that heavy makes me feel like I’m one of those speed freaks since my arrow is only 525


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wildernessmaster]

I like unleashing arrows in the woods....not only is it fun to shoot at stumps and such......it keeps me sharp and dialed in for a real opportunity. Thats one reason I keep my arrow cost down.



I know that^ can be done...I've done it.

I can tell you the one time I went to Australia, I tuned my 80# compound for a 825gr arrow....and then tried shooting the 440gr arrows I was shooting at the time- and they shot dead nuts on. We needed both....as there was a bunch of other stuff to shoot at there, pigs and stuff that I didn't want to fling arrows with $35 BH's at.

So I set up 2 sights on a dovetail....easy to swap out....and it worked like a champ. Shot a buff....and a pile of hogs.
View attachment 190376

Did you not need to adjust your pins, or did you have an adjustable sight? I have 3 bows and have tried shooting 650+gr arrows and 425 gr arrows and while at 20 yards I can get decent groups across both, beyond that range the drop on the 650s forces me to use "kentucky windage" on my pins.

How do you accomplish this if you are making no sight adjustments and have the same bow, draw weight, etc shoot with no sight adjustments.

 

[Beendare]

Did you not need to adjust your pins, or did you have an adjustable sight? I have 3 bows and have tried shooting 650+gr arrows and 425 gr arrows and while at 20 yards I can get decent groups across both, beyond that range the drop on the 650s forces me to use "kentucky windage" on my pins.

How do you accomplish this if you are making no sight adjustments and have the same bow, draw weight, etc shoot with no sight adjustments.

Dovetail mount with 2 sights. One sight setup for the 440gr and the other sight for the 825gr or 840gr [I can remember exact weight]

The 440 was something like 310fps and the 825 was 236fps-ish....big difference. I suppose a guy could just use one sight and calc what distances the different pins work.

I now shoot a 500gr arrow for everything now primarily because I like the tradeoff between good trajectory and a quiet bow [no big dangerous game hunts planned] ....and most times my arrows don't even slow down through an animal using a fixed tapered COC head. It makes for very little animal reactions when hit....vs the tail on fire reaction of short chisel heads or mechs.

The big stuff like that buff require 800gr plus as you are shooting through a 2" hide, 8" of meat before you get to overlapping ribs that are about 1 1/4" thick on those beasts. They are about 4' thick....and those 800gr plus arrows with a 2 blade head go through them like hot knife through butter.

___

 

[cravingame]

I too am going this route this coming year. This was the easiest to follow information video on the topic I could find on YouTube:​

High F.O.C heavy hunting arrows PART 1​

​

High F.O.C heavy hunting arrows PART 2​

 

[daddywagz]

I'd suggest Axis 260 with Iron Will HIT, Impact Collar, and Broadhead. Choosing the 25 grain, 25 grain, and 125 grain will give you about 550 grains total. The HITs are available in 25, 50, 75, & 100 grain if you want to go higher. Substitute Black Eagle Rampage 250 to get a little higher FOC. I'm currently shooting both. Don't forget that momentum is converted to force x time at impact. Choosing a broadhead that reduces the force needed to penetrate will greatly increase penetration. Higher mass will increase penetration but trajectory is the trade off so how high you should go depends on how far you want to shoot. I recorded a Lethal Podcast (heavy arrow guys) last week talking through the physics of arrow penetration along with my discussions with Dr. Ashby. If you are wanting to go heavy, it's worth a listen.

Hey Bill - question for you on this. Why go with the Easton Axis as opposed to the FMJ, which are big heavier? Thanks for your input.

 

[Billy Goat]

Hey Bill - question for you on this. Why go with the Easton Axis as opposed to the FMJ, which are big heavier? Thanks for your input.

I think he is still caribou hunting, but in my opinion I'd use axis over the fmj because they don't bend. I tried fmj's for a few weeks, bended up with broadhead groups falling apart, then spun them again and came up with bent shafts.


Could be other reasons, but I'm not the only one to suffer from the bent fmj's.


Edit without correction:
Bended up meant to be ended up, but it just kinda makes sense so I'm leaving it.

 

[daddywagz]

I think he is still caribou hunting, but in my opinion I'd use axis over the fmj because they don't bend. I tried fmj's for a few weeks, bended up with broadhead groups falling apart, then spun them again and came up with bent shafts.


Could be other reasons, but I'm not the only one to suffer from the bent fmj's.

Cool, thanks for that.

 

[406unltd]

250 spine VAP
28” carbon
250 on the front
4 fletch
Wrap
570 ish total weight
Maybe 260 to 270 for speed which is decent and will BH tune well. If that’s not enough weight for you add 25 more to the front. Spine should hold up.

if slinging an expensive arrow at a rabbit isn’t appealing, then don’t. Grab a shit arrow and weight it down with one of the many ways available, add a small game/ judo point, shit Broadhead, and throw that in the quiver. It doesn’t need to match the hunting arrows as long as it hits.

 

[Beendare]

Del

.

 

[406unltd]

After reading this a year later, note to self;

Don’t bother trying to talk to these very heavy arrow highFOC guys… let them figure it out the hard way.

.

Yup. When that arrow casts like a rainbow, and range estimations get even more difficult it’s inevitable for them out west.

 

[Pramo]

I somehow manage to still read these threads to watch the train wreck. It’s pretty simple get an arrow 450 to 550 and be done. I’ve killed piles of stuff but also know it’s better to learn from guys like Randy Ulmer not a YouTube yahoo.