Head-to-Head: Carbon v. Aluminum Tripods

[robby denning]

This is a great thread - thank you. I'm in the middle of the rabbit hole of trying to upgrade my tripod and the only thing I know that's been more painful is looking at night vision setups. This thread helped me in ways that I hadn't anticipated from the CF vs AL starting point. Thanks!

Robby, looking forward to meeting you in person in a few months.

Hey man glad you found it helpful! And yes, will see you in a few months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ohearchai]

Is everyone just using these tripods for binos or a spotter. Have had a variety of tripods over the past decade, some for use of spotting only, others for shooting off, I do find a big difference. Obviously some brands seem bombproof but at the cost of weight.

 

[fwafwow]

Is everyone just using these tripods for binos or a spotter. Have had a variety of tripods over the past decade, some for use of spotting only, others for shooting off, I do find a big difference. Obviously some brands seem bombproof but at the cost of weight.

Ohearchai - you have identified one of my first pain points in this process. Do I look primarily for a setup for my new binos (Zeiss Victory SF, which don't have a standard mount and I'm looking at OD post or some strap-on option), for a spotting scope, or both? And how much is there a difference? SMH. Maybe I'm just too dense on this topic.

 

[Ohearchai]

Ohearchai - you have identified one of my first pain points in this process. Do I look primarily for a setup for my new binos (Zeiss Victory SF, which don't have a standard mount and I'm looking at OD post or some strap-on option), for a spotting scope, or both? And how much is there a difference? SMH. Maybe I'm just too dense on this topic.

Outdoorsman have the zeiss stud and adapter for mounting, probanly btter than a generic strap.

 

[BBob]

Is everyone just using these tripods for binos or a spotter. Have had a variety of tripods over the past decade, some for use of spotting only, others for shooting off, I do find a big difference. Obviously some brands seem bombproof but at the cost of weight.

I use mine for both. It's been my most used tripod over the years. I've used lighter and smaller but the Outdoorsmans is the minimum stability I've decided I'll accept. I'll carry more weight in the tripod to get the stability and cut weight elsewhere. My personal preference. I do have larger more stable to use depending on the situation.

 

[Ohearchai]

I use mine for both. It's been my most used tripod over the years. I've used lighter and smaller but the Outdoorsmans is the minimum stability I've decided I'll accept. I'll carry more weight in the tripod to get the stability and cut weight elsewhere. My personal preference. I do have larger more stable to use depending on the situation.

BBob, thanks for the reply. To be honest most of my tripod use over the years has been for shooting. I've had a variety of brands over last 10 or 15 years. Some aluminum, some cf, for the last 5 or so I have had a RRS 24 with levelling base. I would think with the large number of cf tripods that have come to market in the last few years, that many would be more appropriate than some of the models discussed in the past 6 pages. Even their use, have never been a fan of a ceneter column, not when your putting a 2 or 3k optic on it.

 

[nephewjephew]

I've seen some people say that Slik is made in China. I reached out and they said all their CF tripods are made at their Thai plant.

 

[Qchunter]

I’ve been happy with my aluminum tripod but it’s time to step up in quality. I would like to try a CF tripod for my next purchase. Seems like Slik has the market there.

 

[Kurts86]

A little late to this thread but I remember being at the Outdoorsmans store a few years back and my engineering head almost exploded when they told me they used aluminum instead of carbon because it was more rigid and had less vibration. I have no question the way they utilize the materials the end effect is better but it’s not that cut and dry either.

If you take two dimensionally indentical tubes of aluminum and carbon fiber hang them from a string and then hit them the carbon fiber will damp quickly and the aluminum will ring like crazy for an extended period. Similarly if you have ever ridden a carbon fiber road bike frame and a really stiff hydroformed aluminum frame the vibration on the aluminum frame will be a lot lot worse.

The reason Outdoorsmans uses aluminum is that economically viable for them to do small batches of production. The economics to make 1,000 pieces and 1,000,000 pieces will drive wildly different prices with different production processes. Aluminum works for these relatively niche product volumes and US manufacturing.

With regard to carbon fiber manufacturing for consumer products, there is almost no domestic manufacturing capability in the US. It’s a process that has really come into its own in the last 2 decades after most manufacturing had been heavily offshored. Southeast Asian has the vast majority of carbon fiber manufacturing capacity and knowledge when it comes to consumer goods. The US certainly has capabilities for aerospace and defense composites, but they aren’t the ones making $250 tripods. Carbon fiber manufacturing isn’t really a choice between cheap offshore labor and American manufacturing, rather there isn’t much choice to for domestic CF manufacturing without tooling up to do it all yourself. So far as I can tell Outdoorsmans is contracting out their aluminum manufacturing to local machine shops and probably doesn’t have the business case to create a carbon fiber shop from the ground up.

With these relatively inexpensive carbon fiber tripods, you are getting tubing made with relatively simple manufacturing methods and uniform carbon layups. There is a huge difference between pulltruded composites and mass rolled tubing than custom molded composites using variable layups in Aluminum molds with really high quality prepreg, vacuum bagging and autoclaves. Fundamentally, aluminum is Uniform in it material properties whereas carbon fiber is all about the orientation of the weaves. If you are NOT Designing the carbon layup for each part and it’s specific loading you won’t get benefit from carbon fiber over quality aluminum. Carbon fiber is also horrible in compression loading and excellent in tension. This is a fundamental problem when your product requires clamping tubes together.

There are a lot of misconceptions around carbon fiber and manufacturing that this will hopefully explain. I really like the Outdoorsmans gear and believe the AZ guys to know glassing better than anyone based on my experiences there. It just happens they are using the academically lesser material with intimate knowledge of hunters glassing demands to make the better product.

 

[robby denning]

A little late to this thread but I remember being at the Outdoorsmans store a few years back and my engineering head almost exploded when they told me they used aluminum instead of carbon because it was more rigid and had less vibration. I have no question the way they utilize the materials the end effect is better but it’s not that cut and dry either.

If you take two dimensionally indentical tubes of aluminum and carbon fiber hang them from a string and then hit them the carbon fiber will damp quickly and the aluminum will ring like crazy for an extended period. Similarly if you have ever ridden a carbon fiber road bike frame and a really stiff hydroformed aluminum frame the vibration on the aluminum frame will be a lot lot worse.

The reason Outdoorsmans uses aluminum is that economically viable for them to do small batches of production. The economics to make 1,000 pieces and 1,000,000 pieces will drive wildly different prices with different production processes. Aluminum works for these relatively niche product volumes and US manufacturing.

With regard to carbon fiber manufacturing for consumer products, there is almost no domestic manufacturing capability in the US. It’s a process that has really come into its own in the last 2 decades after most manufacturing had been heavily offshored. Southeast Asian has the vast majority of carbon fiber manufacturing capacity and knowledge when it comes to consumer goods. The US certainly has capabilities for aerospace and defense composites, but they aren’t the ones making $250 tripods. Carbon fiber manufacturing isn’t really a choice between cheap offshore labor and American manufacturing, rather there isn’t much choice to for domestic CF manufacturing without tooling up to do it all yourself. So far as I can tell Outdoorsmans is contracting out their aluminum manufacturing to local machine shops and probably doesn’t have the business case to create a carbon fiber shop from the ground up.

With these relatively inexpensive carbon fiber tripods, you are getting tubing made with relatively simple manufacturing methods and uniform carbon layups. There is a huge difference between pulltruded composites and mass rolled tubing than custom molded composites using variable layups in Aluminum molds with really high quality prepreg, vacuum bagging and autoclaves. Fundamentally, aluminum is Uniform in it material properties whereas carbon fiber is all about the orientation of the weaves. If you are NOT Designing the carbon layup for each part and it’s specific loading you won’t get benefit from carbon fiber over quality aluminum. Carbon fiber is also horrible in compression loading and excellent in tension. This is a fundamental problem when your product requires clamping tubes together.

There are a lot of misconceptions around carbon fiber and manufacturing that this will hopefully explain. I really like the Outdoorsmans gear and believe the AZ guys to know glassing better than anyone based on my experiences there. It just happens they are using the academically lesser material with intimate knowledge of hunters glassing demands to make the better product.

Very enlightening. Thanks for all that information. Outdoorsman did tell me that’s one of the challenges with CF, is they have to go offshore to get it, that’s why if they ever do it, it will not be in the USA made line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chasewild]

I’ve been happy with my aluminum tripod but it’s time to step up in quality. I would like to try a CF tripod for my next purchase. Seems like Slik has the market there.

I've spent about 15 days scouting bucks thus far and I think I'm going to keep my aluminum summit from vortex and upgrade the head.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

I stopped by the Outdoorsmans the other day hoping to see the new 115 Swarovski scope body with BTX eyepiece. Unfortunately the 115 was out in the field. I did spend some time looking through their BTX with a 95 objective on their “Tall” tripod from the standing position. I brought out my RRS tripod and put it side by side with the Outdoorsmans. Used my 12x50s and the BTX back and forth on both tripods.

I am very impressed with the Outdoorsmans and their new fluid head. Stability was adequately comparable to the RRS in standing position. The fluid head was a dream to pan back and forth with.

 

[Ace1204]

I’m a carbon guy and I don’t think ill ever go back. And as an outdoorsman fan I really really wish they would consider carbon!

A couple big things for me that I don’t see a lot of people talk about-

Noise- if I bounce my carbon off rocks, branches, my pack, bow and or gun, whatever it’s much quieter. Even simply extending the legs, much more muffled than aluminum.

Cold- it’s much more comfortable handling/carrying carbon and I feel like my hands stay much warmer. I dunno maybe I handle and rest my hands on the legs a lot, but i feel like it’s made a big difference.

That’s a great point about handling in the cold

 

[live2huntelk]

I own a RRS tripod and contacted Rob (Customer Service) by email about whether their carbon tripod tubes are US made since their website is somewhat vague.....the "Whenever possible, we source them from US companies..."

https://www.reallyrightstuff.com/about

"Made in USA​

Supporting the lives of American citizens. In return, we promise to always provide high quality products make every effort to meet or exceed your expectations for superior service and product performance.We design Really Right Stuff soft goods ourselves, but we don’t make them ourselves. Whenever possible, we source them from US companies making goods in the USA. Our current line of tripod bags and pouches are made by a US company that sources from factories in Asia. We are continuing to seek USA-made soft goods to complement our “Made in the USA” products. "


Here is the reply from Rob...

"....Our carbon tubes are produced in the US, from a partner company in Utah, and finished in-house. ..."

 

[robby denning]

Final review is done! Thanks for everyone's suggestions and input. It helped!

Tripods: Outdoorsmans Standard vs. SLIK 624

 

[Matt Cashell]

View attachment 240583View attachment 240554

Final review is done! Thanks for everyone's suggestions and input. It helped!

Tripods: Outdoorsmans Standard vs. SLIK 624

Interesting review. I recently went from a Slik CF to the Outdoorsmans Medium because my Sliks keep breaking at the hinge in the extreme cold. I have had two and my hunting buddy’s did the same thing in the same spot. Sounds like you didn’t have that trouble, Robby.

I’ll take the extra ounces of the Outdoorsmans to have a tripod rather than suddenly have a really light bipod with separate monopod.

JME.

 

[robby denning]

Interesting review. I recently went from a Slik CF to the Outdoorsmans Medium because my Sliks keep breaking at the hinge in the extreme cold. I have had two and my hunting buddy’s did the same thing in the same spot. Sounds like you didn’t have that trouble, Robby.

I’ll take the extra ounces of the Outdoorsmans to have a tripod rather than suddenly have a really light bipod with separate monopod.

JME.

thanks, and no trouble at all. hunted to single digits with it. even my 2 year old SLIKs not broken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[otolith]

Great discussion. Very informative. I've used several types of carbon fiber tripods for photography. Now looking to get one for glassing.

 

[otolith]

I've spent many zero degree first light mornings photographing Yellowstone and never had a problem with the tripod breaking. I've also been in 110 plus temps in Death Valley taking pics with no problems as well. I baby them more than I did with the aluminum tripods but I'll never go back those.

 

[mongoslayer]

I have a broken SLIK 624 at home right now. They are definitily not as durable as the Outdoorsmans.

One problem I had with sliks is stripping out the metal on the tripod body, so that the leg angles don't work anymore. Aggressive all day glassing for bears. It took about a week of this and it was fried. Did it to an Outdoorsmans too, but it took 2 weeks, but I just tightened the nut and bolt holding leg to the tripod body real tight and now I have a fairly tight assembly and unlimited much quicker leg angles. Less is more I guess in this case!