Hard to beat the 7mm-08ai?

[Seeknelk]

Yes...horsepower is horsepower. A short action 7mm on the 308 case will NOT outrun a 7 on the 06 case in ANY length barrel. Now if the 7-08 ai does everything you need to the ranges you need...well , there's your answer.
Pick the bullet you want to run, and the range you wish to be effective at and go from there. 280 ai is tough to beat for sure...in "non magnums.

 

[Rambler]

Wondering if the OP also considers the .280 AI a magnum because the .280 AI and 7mm SAUM are nearly identical in case capacity? Both will outrun a 7mm-08 AI in 18-20" barrels.

Not trying to be confrontational my friend, here is my best advice.... If you are set on a 7mm-08 AI go for it! Its a fine cartridge but has limitations if you are working with a short action and a faster twist barrel to shoot heavies, same for the SAUM and especially .284 Win. All do better in medium length custom actions (3.2" mag box) or SA Win M-70's, also 3.2" mag boxes.

If working with a LA the .280 AI is a no brainer.. All of these will run within 200fps of each other at like barrel lengths with the larger case capacity being the fastest. Two hundred FPS is meaningless at normal hunting ranges.

 

[MuleyFever]

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Google the 7 SAW from West Texas Ordinance. Run 308 brass through the sizing die and load. Essentially a 7-08 ai you don’t have to fire form.

I had seen that.

 

[MuleyFever]

Wondering if the OP also considers the .280 AI a magnum because the .280 AI and 7mm SAUM are nearly identical in case capacity? Both will outrun a 7mm-08 AI in 18-20" barrels.

Not trying to be confrontational here my friend, here is my best advice. If you are set on a 7mm-08 AI go for it! Its a fine cartridge but has limitations if you are working with a short action and a faster twist barrel to shoot heavies, same for the SAUM or .284 Win. All do better in medium length custom actions (3.2" mag box) or SA Win M-70's, also 3.2" mag boxes.

If working with a LA the .280 AI is a no brainer.. All of these will run within 200fps of each other at like barrel lengths. Meaningless at normal hunting ranges.

I have 2 280ai's. This one is for my wife, as mentioned. Trying to keep it short and light on recoil.

 

[Rambler]

Gotcha! The 7mm08 AI looks way cool, is easy on the shoulder, and just like all the AI's, a bit more friendly at the reloading bench as it relates to case growth and trimming. That and the +50fps are the only advantages I can think of really...

A 7mm Creedmoore would likely be the ultimate SA big game hunting cartridge if only.....Alas, the 6.5 Creed owns that market right now, IMO.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I have a 20" 7-08AI built on a Tikka action. I am getting 2810 fps with a 162 grain Hornady ELD-X and Varget. With a very mild load of H4350, I can get 2800 fps using 150 grain Nosler ABLR.

 

[MuleyFever]

An 18-20" 7 Saum will still outrun an 18-20" 7mm-08 AI, just sayin'. I've never had either in those barrel lengths but having owned both in barrels from 22-24, I'd say there is no short barreled magic in the AI. Im certianly the biggest proponent of the 7mm-08 and AI in my circle of friends, with the AI being the better case design but there is no "magic" there.

Ill be going 7 SAUM for a suppressed shorty for myself eventually.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Don't even waste your time with a 7-08ai
The 284 crushes it in short barrels, and Lapua brass is available everywhere.
It's really popular in New Zealand, look up "Bush Pigs"
I almost built one myself with an 18" barrel but decided to wildcat a wsm for max performance.

 

[WeiserBucks]

284 Win. is never the wrong answer in this situation.

 

[HandgunHTR]

284 Win. is never the wrong answer in this situation.

The problem with the .284 is using it on a short action. Unless you are going to single-shot it, you are going to have OAL issues with mags and if you have to eject live rounds.
Of course you could build it on a long action, but then you have added length to the firearm, which kind of defeats the purpose of building a short rifle.

 

[WeiserBucks]

The problem with the .284 is using it on a short action. Unless you are going to single-shot it, you are going to have OAL issues with mags and if you have to eject live rounds.
Of course you could build it on a long action, but then you have added length to the firearm, which kind of defeats the purpose of building a short rifle.

Tikka donor solves all of those issues and stays on a reasonable budget.

 

[wyosam]

I’m getting 3150 FPS out of my 22 inch barrel 280 ackley with 145 grain bullets without pushing it very hard. What’s the advantage of a 7-08ai? Hard to get brass and ammo I would bet also.

7-08 brass isn’t difficult to find, and no, you’re not finding factory ammo for any ai other than the 280. Will shoot standard 7-08 just fine though.


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[N2TRKYS]

My 20” barreled 7-08 shoots 140 grain Partitions and Accubonds 2850 fps. I wouldn’t have any issues shooting an elk up to 400 yards with it. I don’t see the need for the added hoops to go through for an ai version.

 

[wyosam]

The 7-08ai is a great cartridge, I’ve got two (one 18”, one 20”). I run the 130 AH at 3000 out of the 18”, 3090 out of the 20”. Would one of the other cartridges mentioned above push them faster? Of course, as would the 28 Nosler and a bunch of others. Speed isn’t everything. My 22” 280ai theoretically extends my range over the 7-08s, but with 99.5% percent of my shots on game being inside 400, that gain means very little.


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[HeavyForCaliber]

"Good for short barrels" can mean different things. To my thinking it means burning almost all of the powder before the bullet exits, avoiding excessive blast, recoil, and flash. Like the bore/stroke ratio in an engine, cases which are fatter and shorter have faster flame travel and can use faster powders for a given pressure and powder volume. This is good for short barrels where the bullet leaves quickly, so it is hard to beat the 7mm-08 at 18" without getting fatter. E.g. going from 7mm-08 to 280 (longer version of the same case) increases velocity, but not efficiently. On the other hand the 284W is fatter than the 7mm-08 but also longer, and 18" looks a little short to use the extra powder well. There are some great 7mm bullets that will work down to 1800 fps, so 7mm-08 AI is a nice balance at 18" and keeps you in a short action.

I got QuickLoad to simulate some of these tradeoffs, the output is below for a 18" barrel. 20" favors the larger cartridges and slower powders. QL is conservative but helps with comparisons. I couldn't attach the files so I just put the Hodgdon powders. Pmuzz relates to pressure at the muzzle (blast). From my testing, 10kpsi is my threshold between "normal/quiet" and "loud". Prop.Burnt % relates to flash if you care.

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 52666 psi, or 363 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 % These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON ! Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Ack. Imp. Rem. Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler Partition SP 16325 Useable Case Capaci: 51.975 grain H2O = 3.375 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm Powder Fill/Load Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time Type % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms -------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hodgdon H414 96.0 48.7 3.15 2675 94.0 52667 13229 1.005 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon CFE223 *C 91.5 47.8 3.10 2673 97.2 52667 12946 1.005 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 104.2 48.3 3.13 2661 98.7 52667 12382 1.003 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H380 92.8 45.5 2.95 2628 96.6 52667 12444 1.022 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 107.0 51.8 3.36 2624 88.1 52667 12661 0.997 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 *T 111.3 51.8 3.36 2624 88.1 52667 12661 0.997 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4350 *T 102.8 48.2 3.12 2615 93.0 52667 12301 1.006 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon VARGET *T 93.7 43.4 2.81 2607 97.7 52667 11884 1.008 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H1000 *T 115.0 54.5 3.53 2528 84.9 47376 12562 1.044 Hodgdon Retumbo 115.0 55.4 3.59 2433 84.9 40159 12971 1.133 Hodgdon H870 115.0 56.9 3.69 2288 72.4 35149 11823 1.210 Hodgdon 50BMG 115.0 55.9 3.62 2199 60.0 35255 10057 1.212 Hodgdon US 869 115.0 58.7 3.80 2192 63.2 35048 10118 1.218 Cartridge : .284 Win. Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler Partition SP 16325 Useable Case Capaci: 57.561 grain H2O = 3.737 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm Powder Fill/Load Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time Type % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms -------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hodgdon H414 93.9 52.7 3.41 2764 96.0 55840 14517 0.992 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 101.7 52.2 3.38 2741 99.6 55840 13385 0.991 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 105.0 56.3 3.65 2728 90.9 55840 14109 0.981 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 *T 109.2 56.3 3.65 2728 90.9 55840 14109 0.981 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H380 91.0 49.3 3.20 2717 98.1 55840 13601 1.006 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H1000 *T 115.0 60.4 3.91 2716 90.3 53967 14566 0.990 Hodgdon H4350 *T 100.8 52.3 3.39 2708 95.2 55840 13573 0.990 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon VARGET *T 92.1 47.3 3.06 2697 98.9 55840 12986 0.990 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon Retumbo 115.0 61.4 3.98 2627 91.3 45979 15180 1.072 Hodgdon H870 115.0 63.0 4.08 2484 79.5 40522 14168 1.146 Hodgdon 50BMG 115.0 62.0 4.01 2374 65.6 40208 12054 1.153 Hodgdon US 869 115.0 65.0 4.21 2372 69.4 40083 12150 1.157 Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler Partition SP 16325 Useable Case Capaci: 68.081 grain H2O = 4.420 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm Powder Fill/Load Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time Type % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms -------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hodgdon Retumbo 115.0 72.6 4.70 2892 97.2 56282 18780 0.974 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H1000 *T 111.0 68.9 4.47 2837 93.5 56875 17314 0.963 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 100.2 63.6 4.12 2797 92.8 56875 16432 0.972 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4831 *T 104.2 63.6 4.12 2797 92.8 56875 16432 0.972 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 96.5 58.6 3.80 2789 99.9 56875 15245 0.986 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H4350 *T 96.2 59.1 3.83 2773 96.5 56875 15700 0.978 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon H870 115.0 74.5 4.83 2759 87.6 50282 18248 1.035 Hodgdon US 869 115.0 76.9 4.98 2629 77.1 49018 15863 1.048 Hodgdon 50BMG 115.0 73.3 4.75 2625 72.8 48915 15753 1.047

 

[tunafed]

Google the 7 SAW from West Texas Ordinance. Run 308 brass through the sizing die and load. Essentially a 7-08 ai you don’t have to fire form.

You happen to have or load for a 7 SAW? Sent a Tikka off to get rebarreled in December to 7mm-08ai and smith convinced me of the merits of the SAW. I picked up 200 pieces of 7 SAW head stamped brass and dies. Just waiting on the rifle to get back to start load development.

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[HandgunHTR]

You happen to have or load for a 7 SAW? Sent a Tikka off to get rebarreled in December to 7mm-08ai and smith convinced me of the merits of the SAW. I picked up 200 pieces of 7 SAW head stamped brass and dies. Just waiting on the rifle to get back to start load development.

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Just like with the AI, start with med-high 7-08 loads and work up slowly.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I’m getting 3150 FPS out of my 22 inch barrel 280 ackley with 145 grain bullets without pushing it very hard. What’s the advantage of a 7-08ai? Hard to get brass and ammo I would bet also.

Same advantage as the 280ai over 280

Not hard to find 7-08 ammo and the only thing more prolific then 308 based cartridges is 223 based cartridges

 

[Northpark]

I had a 7-08ai built last year. Used a 24” proof barrel with Mesa precision altitude CF stock. Topped with Zeiss 4-16x44 V4 it’s 8.2lbs. I’m loving it. Currently using 140gr absolute hammers at 2946 FPS and 168 Berger VLDs at 2705FPS.

 

[CApighunter]

You happen to have or load for a 7 SAW? Sent a Tikka off to get rebarreled in December to 7mm-08ai and smith convinced me of the merits of the SAW. I picked up 200 pieces of 7 SAW head stamped brass and dies. Just waiting on the rifle to get back to start load development.

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I don’t, but if I ever wanted to build a short action standard boltface for mountain hunting I would.