Hard shell confusion

[Drobert]

So I
Just this year I’m doing my first backpack rifle hunt for elk first week of November, here in Idaho. I’ve been reading a lot here on the forums and this is the system that I have come up with thus far:

Uppers:
Base-First lite 150 or 250 merino
Mid- polar tech grid fleece 1/4 zip
Insulating- Decathalon 800 fill- trek 100 down puffer
Hard shell? (Looking at sub $200 rain jacket-possibly Marmot precip

Bottoms:
Base- ECWCS level one long johns
Mid-Not sure if necessary but thinking a level 2 grid fleece or thicker layer on top
Pants-Wrangler ATG utility cargo pant

I know this gets brought up a ton, but I have questions about the hard shell. Is the hardshell just a lightweight rain jacket, and does it get worn most of the hunt? I’ve read the puffy stays in the pack and makes appearances when sitting and glassing, but unsure if the hard shell gets worn most of the time. If the hardshell comes off, either I’m hiking through brush in a fleece or puffy. I’m confused about the hard shell, because bow hunters seem to use the soft shell and carry rain gear in the pack if needed.
Rifle hunters like puffy plus a hard shell. Is the hardshell the same for both.

Any recommendations for hardshells with my system would be appreciated.
I cannot afford Kuiu gear this year.

Thanks for the help

 

[nnmarcher]

I would define a hard shell primarily as protection from precipitation. It's secondary function in my layer system is protection from wind. No insulation, just a waterproof and windproof layer that goes over all my other layers.

I would not recommend wearing your hard shell while hiking unless it is raining because they usually aren't very breathable and you may overheat. I wouldn't hike in your puffy either, as the outer fabric isn't very tough against brush and you may overheat depending on conditions. If you sit down to glass you'll probably put on your puffy to stay warm. Since the down in your puffy isn't meant to be exposed to moisture for extended periods, throw your hard shell on over it to keep it dry during precipitation or to break the wind.

I am an archery hunter and I do most of my hiking in my base layer or fleece and only use my puffy when I'm cold and stationary and my hard shell when it's raining. I personally don't use a soft shell but I understand them to provide some insulation and protection from the wind along with a little precipitation resistance. The face fabric of a soft shell is much quieter than a hard shell.

REI is having a labor day sale right now. I don't have experience with any of these in particular, but there are some great deals from reputable brands (Patagonia, Outdoor Research, Black Diamond, Mountain Hardware, etc).

 

[jtivat]

I agree with the above. The only thing I would add is there are two kinds of hard shells. One is a light for the occasional rain or wind. The second is the thick and durable for a place that rains a lot, and you could be busting brush in it.

 

[Kenai_dtracker]

If you are looking at Marmot, I would bump up the the minimalist jacket over the precip. I have it and its' pretty solid, and has pit zips to vent. Another option is the OR Foray jacket. The minimalist and foray are pretty similar with gore-tex, and a good rain hard shell.

For colder weather, I have the stone glacier M7, which I also use for skiing. This one solid piece of gear and my favorite jacket.

 

[Drobert]

I would define a hard shell primarily as protection from precipitation. It's secondary function in my layer system is protection from wind. No insulation, just a waterproof and windproof layer that goes over all my other layers.

I would not recommend wearing your hard shell while hiking unless it is raining because they usually aren't very breathable and you may overheat. I wouldn't hike in your puffy either, as the outer fabric isn't very tough against brush and you may overheat depending on conditions. If you sit down to glass you'll probably put on your puffy to stay warm. Since the down in your puffy isn't meant to be exposed to moisture for extended periods, throw your hard shell on over it to keep it dry during precipitation or to break the wind.

I am an archery hunter and I do most of my hiking in my base layer or fleece and only use my puffy when I'm cold and stationary and my hard shell when it's raining. I personally don't use a soft shell but I understand them to provide some insulation and protection from the wind along with a little precipitation resistance. The face fabric of a soft shell is much quieter than a hard shell.

REI is having a labor day sale right now. I don't have experience with any of these in particular, but there are some great deals from reputable brands (Patagonia, Outdoor Research, Black Diamond, Mountain Hardware, etc).

Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ve never been on a cold weather backpacking trip, so I don’t want to be under insulated, but also didn’t want to take unnecessary weight- which I understand will most likely be the case. I have a heavy rifle I am dreading packing around already. I’ll check out REI today. Thanks for the headsup

 

[Drobert]

I agree with the above. The only thing I would add is there are two kinds of hard shells. One is a light for the occasional rain or wind. The second is the thick and durable for a place that rains a lot, and you could be busting brush in it.

If you are looking at Marmot, I would bump up the the minimalist jacket over the precip. I have it and its' pretty solid, and has pit zips to vent. Another option is the OR Foray jacket. The minimalist and foray are pretty similar with gore-tex, and a good rain hard shell.

For colder weather, I have the stone glacier M7, which I also use for skiing. This one solid piece of gear and my favorite jacket.

I was looking at the OR Foray and looks like a solid piece. The dark green isn’t offered anymore in my size and the coyote brown just looks too much like elk color for me, glassing on a hilltop. I’ll check out the minimalist. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Grassymike]

OP your system is almost exactly what I use for Alberta Sheep hunts in mid september. For my lower body I have a pair of rain pants with full leg zips from REI that I use for wind as well. I only bring one pair of long johns, but my legs run hot. I have both of the choices you posted. The only additional item I bring is a wind shell. It is uncoated polyester ,so it breathes really well but keeps wind from robbing my warmth. I wear it on the mountain to deal with wind when I am hiking with a pack or glassing etc in wind. Temperatures are usually from 20 C to 0 C on our hunts.