Hamskea Epsilon as Cable driven

[Billy Goat]

Can the Epsilon be converted to cable driven with a spring swap just like the Trinity? Anyone know?

@devinhal ??

 

[Billy Goat]

To clarify, it's advertised as cable driven, but can't find instructions for it. The Trinity includes a different spring to hold launcher down and you can use it as a cable up rest. Looking to try that on the Epsilon, I assume I can, just would like to know for certain before I try it.

 

[devinhal]

First it's important to distinguish between the different ways to actuate a rest.

Limb Driven- The internal torsion spring is holding the launcher in the up position and tension on the cord at rest/brace is what holds the launcher down. This cord is attached to the limb and will become slack when the limb flexes during the draw cycle and the launcher to rise. With this method, the limb will put tension on the cord and pull the launcher down during the shot.

Cable Driven- This method is exactly like Limb Driven, except the cord is attached to the up-cable. So when the bow is drawn, the cable moves up allowing the cord to go slack and the launcher to rise. When the bow is shot, the cable will move down and pull the launcher down.

Cable Fall-Away- This method has an internal torsion spring that is holding the launcher in the down position and the cord is connected to the down cable. When the bow is drawn, the cable will pull on the cord and lift the launcher up. When the bow is shot, the tension on the cord will be released and the internal torsion spring will drop the launcher.

From our research and testing, Limb Driven is the most accurate/forgiving option, while cable fall-away is the least accurate/forgiving. However, if you ordered the opposite wound internal torsion spring, then you can convert the Epsilon to a cable fall-away. Here is a breakdown of the torsion springs.

Limb/cable Driven
-RH requires a Right Wound Torsion Spring
-LH requires a Left Wound Torsion Spring

Cable Fall-Away
-RH requires a Left Wound Torsion Spring
-LH requires a Right Wound Torsion Spring

Springs | Hamskeaarchery

www.hamskeaarchery.com

Just let me know if you have any other questions or if there is anything I can do to help.

 

[Billy Goat]

First it's important to distinguish between the different ways to actuate a rest.

Limb Driven- The internal torsion spring is holding the launcher in the up position and tension on the cord at rest/brace is what holds the launcher down. This cord is attached to the limb and will become slack when the limb flexes during the draw cycle and the launcher to rise. With this method, the limb will put tension on the cord and pull the launcher down during the shot.

Cable Driven- This method is exactly like Limb Driven, except the cord is attached to the up-cable. So when the bow is drawn, the cable moves up allowing the cord to go slack and the launcher to rise. When the bow is shot, the cable will move down and pull the launcher down.

Cable Fall-Away- This method has an internal torsion spring that is holding the launcher in the down position and the cord is connected to the down cable. When the bow is drawn, the cable will pull on the cord and lift the launcher up. When the bow is shot, the tension on the cord will be released and the internal torsion spring will drop the launcher.

From our research and testing, Limb Driven is the most accurate/forgiving option, while cable fall-away is the least accurate/forgiving. However, if you ordered the opposite wound internal torsion spring, then you can convert the Epsilon to a cable fall-away. Here is a breakdown of the torsion springs.

Limb/cable Driven
-RH requires a Right Wound Torsion Spring
-LH requires a Left Wound Torsion Spring

Cable Fall-Away
-RH requires a Left Wound Torsion Spring
-LH requires a Right Wound Torsion Spring

Springs | Hamskeaarchery

www.hamskeaarchery.com

Just let me know if you have any other questions or if there is anything I can do to help.

So follow directions for Conventional Fall Away Mode?

 

[5MilesBack]

So follow directions for Conventional Fall Away Mode?

Given what he said.......I would read that as the cable up option would use the same spring in the rest as using it as limb driven. But if you want to use it as a cable fall-away then you need a different spring.

 

[Billy Goat]

Given what he said.......I would read that as the cable up option would use the same spring in the rest as using it as limb driven. But if you want to use it as a cable fall-away then you need a different spring.

I have a Trinity, it comes with the different spring. It has directions that are titled Conventional Fall Away Mode.


To me a cable driven rest is a rest that the cable brings the launcher into position, but apparently my definition is wrong.

I have swapped the spring out of the Epsilon at this point, mounting to the bow again as a cable up rest to try. Played with it limb Driven down in all kinds of positions and it just hasn't been working for me. The old trophy takers I never had issues with so trying it in that fashion.

 

[devinhal]

I have a Trinity, it comes with the different spring. It has directions that are titled Conventional Fall Away Mode.


To me a cable driven rest is a rest that the cable brings the launcher into position, but apparently my definition is wrong.

I have swapped the spring out of the Epsilon at this point, mounting to the bow again as a cable up rest to try. Played with it limb Driven down in all kinds of positions and it just hasn't been working for me. The old trophy takers I never had issues with so trying it in that fashion.

What were the issues you were running into?

 

[Billy Goat]

What were the issues you were running into?

I just don't find it forgiving, not with the wide launcher it comes with. I had same issues with the Trinity until I went to the wide stainless .012 blade. I just don't want to use that for hunting.

I went back to my old rest and my scores shot up, trying to figure out how to make the Epsilon work, I have used the accu-guide and it seems to help, but I isn't that wide and I'd rather a larger pickup for tge arrow. Going to go shoot a bit with it in conventional fall away mode, give it a little while and see what that does for me.

Yall need to label which way to turn knobs for direction.

 

[devinhal]

I just don't find it forgiving, not with the wide launcher it comes with. I had same issues with the Trinity until I went to the wide stainless .012 blade. I just don't want to use that for hunting.

I went back to my old rest and my scores shot up, trying to figure out how to make the Epsilon work, I have used the accu-guide and it seems to help, but I isn't that wide and I'd rather a larger pickup for tge arrow. Going to go shoot a bit with it in conventional fall away mode, give it a little while and see what that does for me.

Yall need to label which way to turn knobs for direction.

Thanks for the feedback on the knobs. I know we have details in the instructions, but I'll pass your comments to the rest of the design team.

 

[BBob]

Thanks for the feedback on the knobs. I know we have details in the instructions, but I'll pass your comments to the rest of the design team.

Yeah that and tighten up the slack in the adjustment system while you’re at it

 

[svivian]

@Billy Goat I know you are experienced with working on and shooting bows so I ask this respectfully and out of curiosity.

Why are you wanting to run it cable driven vs limb driven?

 

[Billy Goat]

@Billy Goat I know you are experienced with working on and shooting bows so I ask this respectfully and out of curiosity.

Why are you wanting to run it cable driven vs limb driven?

Because I just haven't been happy with it. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it more forgiving for me. I tried playing with how long the rest was up, had it at 40% all the way to 80%. Neither was very forgiving for me. I did some thinking last night after talking with someone else about them, did some recalling on other drop away rests I have shot well and just wondered if maybe trying it as a cable up, spring down would help. I don't know, it is very likely my form that is causing the issues, I thought maybe the cable up would hold the arrow less and possibly be less influenced by the bow at the shot. I shoot a regular old blade rest pretty well, and I generally use a light one (.008), that thing is getting away from the arrow pretty quickly.


Just trying to find the cause really, see if I can determine why it's happening. I don't think it's a rest problem, just a problem with how the rest functions and me if that makes sense. I'm certain I could swap the launcher and make it work, but I don't want to go to a narrower pickup.

This has been on the back burner for months, it's getting close enough to hunting season that I need to narrow down what I'm actually using. Trying it in cable up configuration for the next few days, see how it pans out.

 

[svivian]

Because I just haven't been happy with it. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it more forgiving for me. I tried playing with how long the rest was up, had it at 40% all the way to 80%. Neither was very forgiving for me. I did some thinking last night after talking with someone else about them, did some recalling on other drop away rests I have shot well and just wondered if maybe trying it as a cable up, spring down would help. I don't know, it is very likely my form that is causing the issues, I thought maybe the cable up would hold the arrow less and possibly be less influenced by the bow at the shot. I shoot a regular old blade rest pretty well, and I generally use a light one (.008), that thing is getting away from the arrow pretty quickly.


Just trying to find the cause really, see if I can determine why it's happening. I don't think it's a rest problem, just a problem with how the rest functions and me if that makes sense. I'm certain I could swap the launcher and make it work, but I don't want to go to a narrower pickup.

This has been on the back burner for months, it's getting close enough to hunting season that I need to narrow down what I'm actually using. Trying it in cable up configuration for the next few days, see how it pans out.

Gotcha

Not sure when you bought the epsilon but when they first came out there were some issues others were having. I wonder if you are having the same issues?

Were you having the same problems with the trinity?

 

[Billy Goat]

Gotcha

Not sure when you bought the epsilon but when they first came out there were some issues others were having. I wonder if you are having the same issues?

Were you having the same problems with the trinity?

Like I said, the Trinity I felt like was doing the same thing until I changed launchers. It's not a lack of functionality, it's just my groups are larger than what I'd average. When I get a flier it's a bad flier.

It was an early Epsilon, but I can't detect anything wrong with it. I think it's just how I interact with it.

 

[BBob]

until I changed launchers

I think this is where some of the modern rests have missed the mark. The old button plungers and flexible launchers were in a way far more tunable. I used to make my own launchers out of different thickness feeler gauge material so I could swap and tune.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think this is where some of the modern rests have missed the mark. The old button plungers and flexible launchers were in a way far more tunable. I used to make my own launchers out of feeler gauge material so I could swap and tune.

Its a concern, but I have shot other rests with ridged launchers just fine. So I don't feel like it's the only variable.

One thing I didn't try was reducing the tension on the launcher blade. Maybe that would help. Don't know why I didn't play with that while playing with the timing.

 

[BBob]

Adjusting the tension might accomplish the same thing? Worth a shot anyway. The old thoughts (probably still valid) were to allow the launcher to flex with the arrow flex to guide it without overpowering it. Experimenting usually found a sweet spot there.

Back when I first switched to a drop away I felt like I could still shoot a button and launcher better day in day out but the advantages of the drop away in a hunting situation won out on that.

 

[Billy Goat]

Well I definitely don't have any give now with it in cable up configuration. Need to put it in the drawboard and see how fast it's starting to drop.

 

[stanginthe11s]

play with spring tensions and tie in points. some setups like higher or lower tensons and some react to where the rest is tied in. i have some rests tied in the cable mid grip and some tied in at the stab. same goes with limb driven. a draw board shows at what point a rest moves but it cant show if that launcher isnt moving fast enough, that cable could be outrunning the rest. only thing you can do is try different things and see what helps the rest work for your bow and shooting style.

 

[Billy Goat]

I fully understand playing with stuff. I don't know how many different points I have had this thing tied in at now. I tried in the cable, different limb positions, in the donut yoke splitter. I think I put it on in January or February, messed with it off and on since then. I put a different rest on for a while and immediately was where I should be. At this point its just me trying to find out why.

I have had consistent clearance, even when I got it around 80%.