Guide Etiquette

[louisianahunter]

Lately I've been looking into guides to try and plan a CO OTC hunt for my dad (2024 so it's seems I'm early) - looking into private land DIY/trespass fee hunt specifically (though open to other situations). But I've had some unexpected experience with guides. Only a few have replied to my emails. When they do I'll ask several questions about terrain/elevation/road access/if camping is allowed/clarification on multiple properties they manage etc, and they only reply to one/two questions. Also from my perspective if I'm paying for land access and that's all I'm getting (no guide), then I should be able to ask for the specific GPS way points and see the land from onx. Before any money exchange is happening.

Curious what others experience has been, if it's normal to have to chase down outfitters, normal for them to be uncomfortable telling me exactly where the land is I'm paying for etc. I figured I'd run into a few scammers in this process of searching but I find it unlikely every single person I've talked to is a scammer.

I'd love to hear from guides/people who've been on several more budget minded guide hunts (none of these are trophy units or anywhere near 10k so maybe it's just the quality of person I'm dealing with?). Any other do's/don't of booking with a guide?

 

[raptor16]

What you're more likely experiencing is supply and demand. I'd guess most guides have their craw pretty full with clients with the way western big game hunting is exploding right now. I figure the margin on the more expensive hunts is higher for the guides and thus they put more effort into it. Speculation on my part, but I'd guess they're busy enough to not need to fight for business much.

Have you been able to get any on the phone? I'd be interested to hear if you have the same experience then.

 

[louisianahunter]

What you're more likely experiencing is supply and demand. I'd guess most guides have their craw pretty full with clients with the way western big game hunting is exploding right now. I figure the margin on the more expensive hunts is higher for the guides and thus they put more effort into it. Speculation on my part, but I'd guess they're busy enough to not need to fight for business much.

Have you been able to get any on the phone? I'd be interested to hear if you have the same experience then.

That's what I was thinking. I was listening to a recent podcast and they were joking about how a lot of fishing guides will lie to clients and tell them it's catch and release only - just bc they don't feel like dealing with cleaning fish.
I've had one or two on the phone, definitely better. Any experience with asking about specific location of land to be leased? That's essentially what it is. I cant IMAGINE paying for a lease in LA without walking on it first, much less seeing it from satellite.

 

[Laramie]

That's what I was thinking. I was listening to a recent podcast and they were joking about how a lot of fishing guides will lie to clients and tell them it's catch and release only - just bc they don't feel like dealing with cleaning fish.
I've had one or two on the phone, definitely better. Any experience with asking about specific location of land to be leased? That's essentially what it is. I cant IMAGINE paying for a lease in LA without walking on it first, much less seeing it from satellite.

When I was guiding/leasing hunts, the last thing I would ever do would be to send someone GPS of the property until a month or so before the hunt. I know of 2 different outfitters that lost their leases to higher bidders who were essentially hunters with deep pockets who outbid them. Another reason - f an outfitter has a lease, it is also likely a year to year deal so sending out property locations right now could put them in a bad position if that particular lease wasn't renewed for whatever reason.

 

[louisianahunter]

When I was guiding/leasing hunts, the last thing I would ever do would be to send someone GPS of the property until a month or so before the hunt. I know of 2 different outfitters that lost their leases to higher bidders who were essentially hunters with deep pockets who outbid them. Another reason - f an outfitter has a lease, it is also likely a year to year deal so sending out property locations right now could put them in a bad position if that particular lease wasn't renewed for whatever reason.

Gotcha so they're worried if I have the GPS coordinates then I could just call up the property owner and offer twice as much to cut out the middle man? I guess that makes sense but make me uncomfortable.

 

[WCB]

That's what I was thinking. I was listening to a recent podcast and they were joking about how a lot of fishing guides will lie to clients and tell them it's catch and release only - just bc they don't feel like dealing with cleaning fish.
I've had one or two on the phone, definitely better. Any experience with asking about specific location of land to be leased? That's essentially what it is. I cant IMAGINE paying for a lease in LA without walking on it first, much less seeing it from satellite.

Not the norm to give coordinates for leased land on trespass hunts let alone owned land or outfitted camps. Not that it is all that hard to find some of this information out but an outfitter posting pictures of bulls killed then just sending everyone that asks coordinates of the camp makes zero sense. The outfitter would have to deal with the landowner getting contacted by hunters checking in to make sure said outfitter is telling the truth or deal with people showing up to look around because "we are thinking of booking a hunt with xyz outfitter who leases from you but wanted to see it for myself.

As for fishing guides saying it is catch and release...most caveat that with "if you want to keep fish bring your own cooler and deal with them yourselves". But in general it is along the lines of an outfitter not letting you shoot just any animal you want. Yes it is not the law but it is a camp or outfitter rule. Their lease/land their boat their rules.

 

[louisianahunter]

Not the norm to give coordinates for leased land on trespass hunts let alone owned land or outfitted camps. Not that it is all that hard to find some of this information out but an outfitter posting pictures of bulls killed then just sending everyone that asks coordinates of the camp makes zero sense. The outfitter would have to deal with the landowner getting contacted by hunters checking in to make sure said outfitter is telling the truth or deal with people showing up to look around because "we are thinking of booking a hunt with xyz outfitter who leases from you but wanted to see it for myself.

As for fishing guides saying it is catch and release...most caveat that with "if you want to keep fish bring your own cooler and deal with them yourselves". But in general it is along the lines of an outfitter not letting you shoot just any animal you want. Yes it is not the law but it is a camp or outfitter rule. Their lease/land their boat their rules.

Okay I guess that makes sense. It's hard bc I really want to make sure the terrain isn't to demanding for my dad and that there's decent road access for recovery of an elk by myself. Good to know going forward that not everyone withholding that information is suspicious.

 

[WCB]

Okay I guess that makes sense. It's hard bc I really want to make sure the terrain isn't to demanding for my dad and that there's decent road access for recovery of an elk by myself. Good to know going forward that not everyone withholding that information is suspicious.

The hard part of asking about terrain is everyone's ability is judge by that individual not seen by the outfitter or guide. I've had guys who wanted to hunt on foot and train for elk hunts opt for the horse after the first day and other guys who came into the hunt loving the idea of the horse and ease of getting around because they thought the terrain was going to kick their butts want to throw the packs on and hoof it.

With that said...if they have hunted that ground for any amount of time they should have some pictures or be able to give you a decent idea. Same with roads...pretty easy imo for a guide or outfitter to say something like "at no time are you more than X distance from a road or motorized trail.

Just an FYI in face conversations or phone calls are A LOT easier sometimes and repeat emails back and forth or constantly having new question my rub the outfitter the wrong way and they may just think "this guy is going to be a handful".

I know when I guided some of the stories of the clients before me were eye opening. Like guys saying "yep we are all in good shape and can walk"...only to show up and one guy is on oxygen. Or clients complaining that the bread wasn't fresh French bread or garlic bread sticks with their meal after packing in for hours on horses? like did you expect from scratch noodles and sauce also?

 

[Rich M]

You just want to purchase land access, and know about the lay of the land. Sounds reasonable.

Get referrals to who to call. I can see that being scam-city.

Good luck.

 

[sndmn11]

I think you might be a heck of a lot happier moving away from being guided in an OTC unit and instead seeking out LO vouchers in well-thought-of units, and then DIY there. You might be a wash cost-wise, and still legally have access to the private land. The only thing to make sure of is that the voucher is unrestricted.

 

[louisianahunter]

The hard part of asking about terrain is everyone's ability is judge by that individual not seen by the outfitter or guide. I've had guys who wanted to hunt on foot and train for elk hunts opt for the horse after the first day and other guys who came into the hunt loving the idea of the horse and ease of getting around because they thought the terrain was going to kick their butts want to throw the packs on and hoof it.

With that said...if they have hunted that ground for any amount of time they should have some pictures or be able to give you a decent idea. Same with roads...pretty easy imo for a guide or outfitter to say something like "at no time are you more than X distance from a road or motorized trail.

Just an FYI in face conversations or phone calls are A LOT easier sometimes and repeat emails back and forth or constantly having new question my rub the outfitter the wrong way and they may just think "this guy is going to be a handful".

I know when I guided some of the stories of the clients before me were eye opening. Like guys saying "yep we are all in good shape and can walk"...only to show up and one guy is on oxygen. Or clients complaining that the bread wasn't fresh French bread or garlic bread sticks with their meal after packing in for hours on horses? like did you expect from scratch noodles and sauce also?

Yeah that's very helpful. Didn't think how I might come off as a pain in the ass to the guides.

 

[louisianahunter]

I think you might be a heck of a lot happier moving away from being guided in an OTC unit and instead seeking out LO vouchers in well-thought-of units, and then DIY there. You might be a wash cost-wise, and still legally have access to the private land. The only thing to make sure of is that the voucher is unrestricted.

You know I haven't looked into these a lot but you might be right. Are there any good resources for getting these tags when they go on sale?

 

[sndmn11]

You know I haven't looked into these a lot but you might be right. Are there any good resources for getting these tags when they go on sale?

Send me a PM and I'll get back to you before the weekend. I think in the last I've just googled Colorado Landowner vouchers and a few sites have popped up. It would be a good to contact folks now and get the details and possibly commit to buying for next year.

 

[yfarm]

I hunt a private LO lease in NM. To give you an idea how careful some of these guys are. Initial contact with one of his hunters by phone, interviewed us and said he would let us know. Owner then called and interviewed us by phone, after passing I was ”asked” by the owner to meet him at the ranch for an inperson interview at the ranch and to given a tour and instructions on what he expected from us relative to land use, vehicle restrictions etc. Ranch is 3 hrs from a highway crossing multiple properties, all have similar rules. Break the rules, your off no appeal process. Quality self guided hunts, kill bulls every year. Have 2-3 hunters on a couple of thousand acres.

 

[Cornhusker]

I have a small hunt/guide service something I do in retirement and to meet people I enjoy spending time hunting with. We do turkeys and deer both whitetail and mulies. We are booked until 2028 and I really don't want anymore contacts but I make sure I answer every phone call and every email and there are a lot. Even though I don't have a spot for them we talk hunting and I'm often able to help them with a hunt. It's always karma with me and it always pays off the hunting community is smaller than a person would suspect and it always seems like I run into someone that I've talked with or they know that person.

I think you should expect to receive a concise email thanking you for any hunt you inquire about and I think an outfitter should pick up the phone or get back to you. I even answer emails when outside of the country. I think not answering a prospective hunters says a lot about the quality of individual you may be dealing with. Just an old guys opinion but you asked for it.

 

[wyosteve]

I agree with you in principle Cornhusker, but in practice I’d have a hard time continuing to be cordial to an incessant ‘tirekicker’. Just my .02!

 

[snowymtnwolf]

I think you might be a heck of a lot happier moving away from being guided in an OTC unit and instead seeking out LO vouchers in well-thought-of units, and then DIY there. You might be a wash cost-wise, and still legally have access to the private land. The only thing to make sure of is that the voucher is unrestricted.

Yes yes yes. Do this ^^^

And phone calls better. Some prob booked. Some prob get a gazillion emails and long winded phone calls that never turn out to a booking. It’s business (with both of you need to understand).

Good luck


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[sndmn11]

You know I haven't looked into these a lot but you might be right. Are there any good resources for getting these tags when they go on sale?

Hunting Fool, Monster Muleys, Hunter's Domain, they pop up in Facebook groups regularly.

 

[louisianahunter]

Hunting Fool, Monster Muleys, Hunter's Domain, they pop up in Facebook groups regularly.

Yeah that's where I've seen them pop up mostly too, I'll send a dm

 

[louisianahunter]

I hunt a private LO lease in NM. To give you an idea how careful some of these guys are. Initial contact with one of his hunters by phone, interviewed us and said he would let us know. Owner then called and interviewed us by phone, after passing I was ”asked” by the owner to meet him at the ranch for an inperson interview at the ranch and to given a tour and instructions on what he expected from us relative to land use, vehicle restrictions etc. Ranch is 3 hrs from a highway crossing multiple properties, all have similar rules. Break the rules, your off no appeal process. Quality self guided hunts, kill bulls every year. Have 2-3 hunters on a couple of thousand acres.

Damn that's thorough vetting, I definitely get it. I wouldn't want just anyone on my ranch.