Group Evaluation :) lol

[ja4wheel6]

Any Advice on this? Absolutely no clicker changes were made.

Changed to laying on dirt instead of concrete for the final group.

26" Barrel Christenson arms.

Am I seeing an inconsistent operator? or does it seem to be a scope shifting? any advice? building up brass first then going to handloads

 

[ArcherAnthony]

Have you only tried 1 type of ammo? I have a CA Ridgeline in 28 Nosler that would not shoot factory ammunition that I tried. I finally bought a custom load and it shot way better. Mine would not shoot SUB MOA with factory loads.

 

[nobody]

If you stack them on top of each other visually, your POI seems to be left of POA. Gun appears to be shooting roughly 2 MOA overall.

How fast were you shooting? What’s your rest setup (bipod and rear bag vs. sandbags front and rear)? 300 PRC I’m assuming?

 

[ja4wheel6]

If you stack them on top of each other visually, your POI seems to be left of POA. Gun appears to be shooting roughly 2 MOA overall.

How fast were you shooting? What’s your rest setup (bipod and rear bag vs. sandbags front and rear)? 300 PRC I’m assuming?

300 prc yes. Bipod, controlled slow shots. would agree with the overall left poi.

 

[Doc Holliday]

If the rifle is new, how many rounds have you fired? I've always gotten good groups with Nosler or Barnes in my Christensens, never had much luck w Hornady factory rounds

 

[ArcherAnthony]

To add on to what i said earlier. It has been my experience with all my rifles that you just cant shoot one type of factory ammo and expect results. Try other brands and try other bullets. Have you tried the Precision Hunters yet? If you cant get any of them to group then its time to start figuring out what is going wrong. Nothing about those groups looks mechanically wrong to me.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Parallax error with an inconsistent head position?

 

[nobody]

300 prc yes. Bipod, controlled slow shots. would agree with the overall left poi.

I would say to take the gun and scope combo apart and verify everything is tight/torqued to spec, then try again. Christensen tests all their rifles in house with Hornady Match Ammo when they do their accuracy “tests.” Try some Precision Hunter loads as well.

Shoot a prone 10 round group off a front and rear sandbag, then do another prone 10 round group with bipod and rear bag. If it won’t shoot inside about 1.5-ish MOA, I’d swap out the optic. If it still doesn’t shoot after all that, ship the thing back to Christensen and make them deal with it.

But with all that said, I’d bet the problem (no offense) is you. A 300 PRC is a handful, and is difficult to shoot well from field positions with a lightweight rifle, no matter what the keyboard warriors say. It’s going to take some seriously dedicated trigger time to get good at shooting it well.

What scope and mounting system are you using?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Hopefully something is loose. What's the full setup?

 

[ja4wheel6]

If the rifle is new, how many rounds have you fired? I've always gotten good groups with Nosler or Barnes in my Christensens, never had much luck w Hornady factory rounds

these are rounds 60-80 through it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Interesting that in 4 of the 5 groups your first shot was the furthest to the right. Not sure what would mechanically cause that.

 

[ja4wheel6]

I would say to take the gun and scope combo apart and verify everything is tight/torqued to spec, then try again. Christensen tests all their rifles in house with Hornady Match Ammo when they do their accuracy “tests.” Try some Precision Hunter loads as well.

Shoot a prone 10 round group off a front and rear sandbag, then do another prone 10 round group with bipod and rear bag. If it won’t shoot inside about 1.5-ish MOA, I’d swap out the optic. If it still doesn’t shoot after all that, ship the thing back to Christensen and make them deal with it.

But with all that said, I’d bet the problem (no offense) is you. A 300 PRC is a handful, and is difficult to shoot well from field positions with a lightweight rifle, no matter what the keyboard warriors say. It’s going to take some seriously dedicated trigger time to get good at shooting it well.

What scope and mounting system are you using?

Vortex rings, pros i think? Zeiss conquest v4 4-16 x50
I have unknown munitions premier rings in hand and nx8 is en route

I sent my last mpr back 4 times until they just gave me this rifle. It shoots better than any of the last 4 times i sent them back. Now i am trying to pull the best accuracy i can out of it. I should of sold it when it was brand new and just built a custom. I will take this one to a gunsmith if i cant get it to shoot and have them true it up.

 

[hereinaz]

What is the best you have shot another 300 magnum?

Here is a test to see how much is you vs. the gun. Try shooting 10-20 shots, but break your position, pick up your rifle, then build it again before each shot.

Or, have someone better than you shoot it.

If you do the build and break, you are likely to establish a pattern that can possibly give more information by changing just one variable, one new shooting position instead of five. It looks like maybe the gun has shot 5 moa sized groups, but the shooter has moved the POI.

Make sure and number the shots to see if anything moves or changes as you go. Just don’t get the barrel really hot, but otherwise I don’t care if it is a cold barrel or a warm barrel.

After you do that, shoot 10 with the build and break, but dry fire 5 times in the new position before you shoot. Note if the crosshairs move and how they move on each dryfire. Take a video and explain it so you can listen later and watch yourself.

All that will test one shooter related hypothesis I start with whenever I get the question from a friend.

Hypo: With your current skill set building a position and breaking the trigger, you can’t shoot this particular rifle consistently.

This is what informs my hypothesis that it could be you, so here is my “reading the tea leaves” of the groups.

I believe it’s the shooter more often than the gun, so, assuming the weird grouping is you: this is how I would look at the groups if I was working with someone who was shooting my rifle that is a known .5 moa gun.

You have several groups with different points of impact. The groups themselves are smaller than the overall, which is consistent with small samples, so it could be the gun.

What are the odds that a 2 moa gun would shoot 5 separate 1 moa groups? If it’s the gun only, I would expect more randomness across the shots and groups. There are 5 clusters that correlate to your groups. Correlation is not causation, but it is something to start with.

Prove you are not the cause of the correlation and then you can start with the gun. I think you are a good shooter, you shot 5 different moa sized groups, but for some reason this magnum is not shooting—for you.

There is a real possibility that they are showing your inconsistent positions behind the rifle. If the gun is an MOA or less shooter, then the moving groups are the result of your inconsistent positions that then moves the point of impact. The individual groups are MOA, but your inconsistent position and recoil management puts them into different spots.

Four groups were primarily below the mid line, three entirely below. Only 5 shots went over, two barely in one group. And, the other group that was primarily over the mid line looked vertically stringy.

Likewise, there is a left bias in the groups.

Looks to me more like this is shooter related. It could be fixed by better recoil management, changing the fitting of the rifle system to you, etc.

 

[hereinaz]

Interesting that in 4 of the 5 groups your first shot was the furthest to the right. Not sure what would mechanically cause that.

i can’t think of anything mechanical, but recoil moves a reticle (edit up) and to the left. I have seen a shooter settle into a position and groups trend to the left after the rear bag settles in and the rifle moves into a more consistent position in the shoulder pocket.

For a right handed shooter, that means the groups move a little left as the rifle butt moves away from the head because of cheek pressure.

Consistent with that hypothesis, after the first shot, the shooter settled in and then shot a small group at the adjusted point of aim.

Added:::

All of that is consistent with loose recoil management from incomplete position building or inconsistent trigger press.

 

[hereinaz]

And, to think of it, three of the “cold bore” shots are in the aim point, of the four that went into the group. Add that to the second shot shift and subsequent small group phenomenon, and the odds are pointing to the shooter more than the gun.

Random distribution would be expected from the gun. The five samples could not be enough, and it could be chance.

But, all these patterns suggest further investigation of the hypothesis that is it shooter error. Especially when the patterns in the group can be explained by previously tested hypothesis and observations.

 

[ja4wheel6]

What is the best you have shot another 300 magnum?

Here is a test to see how much is you vs. the gun. Try shooting 10-20 shots, but break your position, pick up your rifle, then build it again before each shot.

Or, have someone better than you shoot it.

If you do the build and break, you are likely to establish a pattern that can possibly give more information by changing just one variable, one new shooting position instead of five. It looks like maybe the gun has shot 5 moa sized groups, but the shooter has moved the POI.

Make sure and number the shots to see if anything moves or changes as you go. Just don’t get the barrel really hot, but otherwise I don’t care if it is a cold barrel or a warm barrel.

After you do that, shoot 10 with the build and break, but dry fire 5 times in the new position before you shoot. Note if the crosshairs move and how they move on each dryfire. Take a video and explain it so you can listen later and watch yourself.

All that will test one shooter related hypothesis I start with whenever I get the question from a friend.

Hypo: With your current skill set building a position and breaking the trigger, you can’t shoot this particular rifle consistently.

This is what informs my hypothesis that it could be you, so here is my “reading the tea leaves” of the groups.

I believe it’s the shooter more often than the gun, so, assuming the weird grouping is you: this is how I would look at the groups if I was working with someone who was shooting my rifle that is a known .5 moa gun.

You have several groups with different points of impact. The groups themselves are smaller than the overall, which is consistent with small samples, so it could be the gun.

What are the odds that a 2 moa gun would shoot 5 separate 1 moa groups? If it’s the gun only, I would expect more randomness across the shots and groups. There are 5 clusters that correlate to your groups. Correlation is not causation, but it is something to start with.

Prove you are not the cause of the correlation and then you can start with the gun. I think you are a good shooter, you shot 5 different moa sized groups, but for some reason this magnum is not shooting—for you.

There is a real possibility that they are showing your inconsistent positions behind the rifle. If the gun is an MOA or less shooter, then the moving groups are the result of your inconsistent positions that then moves the point of impact. The individual groups are MOA, but your inconsistent position and recoil management puts them into different spots.

Four groups were primarily below the mid line, three entirely below. Only 5 shots went over, two barely in one group. And, the other group that was primarily over the mid line looked vertically stringy.

Likewise, there is a left bias in the groups.

Looks to me more like this is shooter related. It could be fixed by better recoil management, changing the fitting of the rifle system to you, etc.

View attachment 650968

I absolutely love the information! Very very helpful.

The factory cheek piece isn't tall enough so i actually cut a 1/4" block to stuff under it and raise it. It helped be more comfortable.

To be my benefit/excuse- I did shoot all groups with a bipod and rear molinator light bag from unknown munitions. First two groups I had bipods leg straight and on concrete. couldn't load it. I then through sand bags in front of the legs so I could push into them some.

My last group I moved to the dirt and shot with spiked legs and loaded the bipod like I would with the MPR to get my best groups.

See my attached Model i made for my cheek piece i am making. Will be 3d printed out of carbon. Incorporates negative comb and gets me the the right height. After than i will be working on possibly modifying the recoil pad higher to get it above boreline. Also will be bedding the rifle.

If this does not fix it, I will take it to a gunsmith and have them true it up.

 

[hereinaz]

It’s like reading tea leaves and maybe it’s the gun, lol…

But, when you changed to bipod in the dirt, your last group centered on the target for a solid group and more random distribution.

It’s the other four groups that make me think the gun will shoot, because if you eliminate the “cold bore shot” your “settled in” groups are very good.

There are definitely patterns that seem to point to you are the shooter and control over the rifle.

If you aren’t totally comfortable behind the gun, and using the “molinator” which is a lightweight springy rear bag, then your groups are excellent.

Don’t discount the brutality of a 300 magnum in a hunting rifle. There is a reason bench rest guns are heavy and shot over heavy front and rear bags for consistent recoil.

Check out how and why @Broz of Long Range Only designed and sells the Hunter’s Wedge for big magnums. My company sews the bags for him, and I learned a lot about controlling the big magnums for precision in a hunting rifle.

You are on the right track with getting the rifle set up for you.

Love to hear about your progress and experience.

 

[hereinaz]

I absolutely love the information! Very very helpful.

The factory cheek piece isn't tall enough so i actually cut a 1/4" block to stuff under it and raise it. It helped be more comfortable.

To be my benefit/excuse- I did shoot all groups with a bipod and rear molinator light bag from unknown munitions. First two groups I had bipods leg straight and on concrete. couldn't load it. I then through sand bags in front of the legs so I could push into them some.

My last group I moved to the dirt and shot with spiked legs and loaded the bipod like I would with the MPR to get my best groups.

See my attached Model i made for my cheek piece i am making. Will be 3d printed out of carbon. Incorporates negative comb and gets me the the right height. After than i will be working on possibly modifying the recoil pad higher to get it above boreline. Also will be bedding the rifle.

If this does not fix it, I will take it to a gunsmith and have them true it up.

What’s the MPR?

 

[ja4wheel6]

What’s the MPR?

christenson mpr

 

[Lawnboi]

Chances are you lost Christensen arms roulette.

Don’t dump more money into a Christensen arms. Probably a junk barrel. I played this game and it was a huge waste of time and money.