Grenading bullet velocity

[whoami-72]

Everyone is always worried about bullets having a minimum velocity for expansion. However, I've been reading that some bullets grenade when not intended because they are going "to fast" as was hypothesized by others on the internet.

For example, this year I hit a deer at 75 yards with an ELD-x at roughly 2550 fps and had only a sliver of bullet exit on the other side and the rest grenaded in the chest cavity. This got me wondering what velocities other people have seen this at. Obviously some people will have great performance but for those guys who had a bullet grenade.

What bullet was it? What species did you hit? What was your estimated velocity?

 

[trailblazer75]

I shot 5 whitetails a couple years ago with ELD-X 143 6.5 CMs. All 5 shots were sub 150 yards and most were well inside 100. I never did the math for velocity but I'd assume they couldn't have been much different and I experienced extremely marginal holes. I know some folks argue it but I got what I got. Only thing I can see is that they were too fast and breaking up and just causing pencil hole entries and exits. Every deer ran. 4/5 died within 200 yards. One went unrecovered. I think grand total I'd say from all the deer I found roughly 1/2 liter of blood. The 4 shots made on recovered deer were 1) behind the shoulder, mid body line, single lung/liver/Guts.
2) quartering to inside the shot side shoulder and out at last rib. 3) broadside, middle of the body, double lung. 4) High shoulder. I don't know where I hit the buck I lost but it was a 70 yard shot broadside and I had the most blood out of that shot than any 3 of the other 4 combined.

 

[rkcdvm]

On Hornadys website they actually talk about it on the ELDX page (or at least they did have it there at one point)
If I remember correctly it stated that sun 400 yards the bullet has 50-65% weight retention. After 400 it was stated 85 + I think.
My personal experience with that bullet would agree with their statement.

 

[JFK]

Last year I saw an elk shot with an eldx from a 7 mag at about 150 yards. Elk fell instantly so bullet worked, but during gutting/skinning the bullet was literally just tiny pieces of jacket. It didn’t “grenade” as it reached the vitals, created impressive damage, and most fragments were found on the offside, but was surprised at how much it came apart.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

fragmentation is extremely destructive to tissue. I'd argue that fragmentation in the heart/lung complex is the most destructive, quickest killing bullet performance characteristic. Entrance and exit holes don't tell the story of what happened in between.

 

[willfrye027]

I’ve hunted whitetails in thick stuff back East and now mostly hunt mule deer out west.

An exit wound can be helpful back east for a blood trail. A perfectly hit deer will still make a death run and sometimes take an unpredictable path. Blood can be helpful, I get it.

I agree with the above in that fragmenting bullets kill more quickly. I strongly prefer my bullets to enter the chest and not exit. This will result in a deer dying pretty much within sight out west.

If you really need an exit..accubond, mono, or something similar will do it but you’re going to have less tissue destruction and potentially a longer tracking job.

Instead of looking at the entry, exit, or muscle damage surrounding those, try opening up the chest cavity. Pull out the heart and lungs, clean them off, and dissect what exactly the bullet had damaged. For me this has informed what I consider good terminal performance.

 

[sram9102]

Ya'll must have some armor plated whitetails... This is what most of the exits have looked like on deer I have taken with 6.5 eldm/x over the past 5ish years from 40 to 400 yards. This one had some jellied lungs leaking out of the wound.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There’s more factory than just velocity for a bullet to splash on impact but it’s the greatest driving factor. Bullet construction has a lot to do with it, some bullets are more prone to it while some won’t splash at all. RPM’s from faster twist can also enhance it.

 

[yfarm]

Read about rotational forces, hydrodynamic flow and velocity.

 

[whoami-72]

There’s more factory than just velocity for a bullet to splash on impact but it’s the greatest driving factor. Bullet construction has a lot to do with it, some bullets are more prone to it while some won’t splash at all. RPM’s from faster twist can also enhance it.

Agreed, I'd even argue there is more than what you stated but the average Joe wouldn't have any idea about how to track that. In fact, I feel like most people don't even think about the velocities.

 

[whoami-72]

On Hornadys website they actually talk about it on the ELDX page (or at least they did have it there at one point)
If I remember correctly it stated that sun 400 yards the bullet has 50-65% weight retention. After 400 it was stated 85 + I think.
My personal experience with that bullet would agree with their statement.

Now that's an interesting addition to the convo. I'd love to see where they posted it. Frankly, I don't ever see myself shooting past 300 even though I make sure I'm good to go at 500 just in case. If you find out where they posted it. Let me know

 

[49ereric]

had an issue with exploding Sierra 165 grain boat tails a long time ago in a .308 and went back to spitzers.
I don’t shoot far enough to use boat tails.

 

[wind gypsy]

had an issue with exploding Sierra 165 grain boat tails a long time ago in a .308 and went back to spitzers.
I don’t shoot far enough to use boat tails.

Must of been the traits of two specific offerings a while ago. Spitzer and boat tail are not mutually exclusive traits and I cant think of a reason that the presence of a boat tail would have any significant impact on short range terminal ballistics beyond it just being part of a bullet that has other attributes leading to those performance characteristics.

 

[wind gypsy]

There’s more factory than just velocity for a bullet to splash on impact but it’s the greatest driving factor. Bullet construction has a lot to do with it, some bullets are more prone to it while some won’t splash at all. RPM’s from faster twist can also enhance it.

My limited anecdotal evidence suggests the RPMs either make a significant difference or the 7mm 175 ELDx is quite a bit more frangible than the .30 cal 200 ELDx. The 7mm has been quite a bit more explosive with same muzzle velocity/impact velocity but through an 8 twist barrel vs the 30 cal in a 10 twist barrel.

 

[49ereric]

Must of been the traits of two specific offerings a while ago. Spitzer and boat tail are not mutually exclusive traits and I cant think of a reason that the presence of a boat tail would have any significant impact on short range terminal ballistics beyond it just being part of a bullet that has other attributes leading to those performance characteristics.

it was long ago when the boat tail jackets were to thin Apparently. I had bought them from a neighbor so no idea how old they were but typical green cardboard box is what they came in.
the 165’s exploded lead pieces everywhere. no thru and thru wound and took forever to clean the tiny lead pieces out.
I went from shooting deer once with a spitzer to shooting deer 3 times with those old boat tails.
flat based spitzers have rarely seperated from the jacket and when they did I still had thru and thru wound channel.

 

[rkcdvm]

Now that's an interesting addition to the convo. I'd love to see where they posted it. Frankly, I don't ever see myself shooting past 300 even though I make sure I'm good to go at 500 just in case. If you find out where they posted it. Let me know

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/eld-x#!/#features

its in the features of the bullet section.

 

[neil.hansford]

I've only had one projectile "grenade" or explode on impact....and it was an Accubond. Mule deer, roughly 75 yards, .270 Winchester. Very little penetration, and required tracking and follow up shot. It was strange, and the only time I've even heard of that from an Accubond.

Sent from my SM-T227U using Tapatalk

 

[UTJL]

I’ve posted it on here before but I had (3) 180 grain accubonds grenade on an elk, out of a 300 wildcat. They were moving around 3200 fps upon impact and only penetrated about 6”.

I don’t consider this a bullet failure; in hindsight I used the wrong bullet for the situation.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

I shot a mule deer buck at about 80 yards free hand and hit the spine right behind the shoulders. I was shooting a 7 RM with 154 gr Hornady SST's going roughly 3000 fps at the muzzle. Upon impact it blew an entry hole about 8-10 inches across and I found lead shrapnel throughout the backstraps.
I do prefer a lead, expanding bullet and have since switched to the 162 ELD-X to see how the do. I did, however, use up the rest of my SST's shooting deer, moose and elk after that and have not seen any more explosive effects. It's been pass throughs or mushrooms found against the opposite side of the hide.
Lesson learned: don't shoot large bones bones point blank with fragmenting bullets out of a magnum. I would still take a neck shot at close range.