Gravel driveway help

tony

WKR
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Nov 13, 2015
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WV
GF bought 10 acres on a ridge top to build a house. Typical land lay, flat, hill, flat on the build site. Power lines run on the bought of the property and its flat. From what I understand from the AEP site and what little research I've done, you can build a driveway along a power line right of way as long as you are far enough from the poles and don't change the elevation, as in do add or remove dirt. She does not want to use this route, plus it woukd need approval from AEP I figure.

GF and her dad have chose a route that requires, what I call significant earth moving. Basically cut through a hillside by the county road and come in that way. Mutual friend of ours does driveway work and bid the project. Big stone base and working smaller to the top and placing some sort of mat in between the stone to "lock" it all in. A drain ditch on each side and culverts I think every 100 to 200 feet. The driveway is around 600 feet long.
His price is $44,000.00
He owns 2 small dump trucks a bob cat with attachments and a small john deer tractor with bucket and backhoe. He says he will sub with a friend that has a dozer and an actual excavator. And have the stone brought in by tandem axle dumps as they can haul more and make less trips.

I paid an actual small excavating company to come an mulch a couple acres and he said you dont need to use matting or culverts, just crown and ditches in build of the driveway. He said he would use just two different size stone. He has all the equipment and bigger dumps to haul stone.
His price is around $25,000.00

I don't anything about driveways or home building. These prices sound right? This is south east Ohio, so the land is foothills of the Appalachian mountains
 
44k sounds high, culverts may or may not be needed depending on soil type , grade , drainage surface. I would ask how much of the 44k is material , and how much isn’tlabor (hrs and $), and how many cuyd of excavation is required. If they will not provide you all of these details quickly that is a HUGE red flag
 
I think there's too many unknowns.

The lower bid might be all you need, but it might also just be passable for now, and turn to headaches later.

You can't really have too many culverts or washout on a driveway in my opinion, but they add up.

Only way you wouldn't really need culverts is if the driveway runs center of the hill and water can shed off both sides the whole way. Otherwise its going to end up crossing somewhere, and it won't just be the water running on the lane, but also the water coming off the ground above it.

Rock on a hillside is always working its way downhill, and you gotta work to keep it in place.
 
Really hard to give an opinion without seeing it. When you say "significant" about of dirt moved that can turn into a lot more. If you have very deep cuts to just get to road level then your ditches even deeper. Lets aay you have a 5ft cut to road and a 2ft cut for ditch. If you look at the uphill side of that ditch you will have to move quite a bit of dirt to get that slope decent. Just like any highway projects. The cuts fill the fills. So distance of cut to fill makes a big difference in price per yard moved. And generally every fill will need a culvert.


Two sizes of rock will be just fine. And depends on what your putting the rock on if you would want to put fabric or plastic mesh down. Not very often have i installed fabric or mesh under rock. Did on some engineered project. But not just on a driveway for a house. 44k does seem fairly pricey.
 
Without seeing the terrain it’s hard to say what you may need for drainage. As stated above just know that if you don’t let the water cross the road and it needs or wants to it will find a way. All of the water sheeting off the hill once/if it gets concentrated can create some serious erosion in even a moderate storm.

If you end up going to other route I’d call AEP and verify what you interpret for there specs before you build.

Lastly 44k seems wildly high at over $70 per LF. His small equipment might be driving the total hours up.
 
I think to best answer your question a construction plan or drawing would help us a lot. Even an OnX hybrid layer screen shot. There are a lot of great forest road building manuals out there to help determine what erosion control best management practices to use. Contractors are great at being overly confident on site designs just to have the driveway fail or wash away in a few years and blame it on a “historic storm”. I’ve seen access roads go between $40-$80 a linear foot depending on what is planned.


 
Yeah pics would help :D
This is looking from the road, hillside, flat as you can see the power lines. The drive is way to the left. The hillside remains the same though

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This is the actual spot they want to cut through here, her dad is standing to what would be an edge of the driveway. It flattens out to where you see those trees in the back. Drive will go to the trees and make a right up to the top
IMG_3491.jpeg
Top of the property, the driveway will come up in the far distance as she wants the house on that end.

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Idea of the elevation. You can see how it flattens in the middle.

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Pictures aren’t the best and unfortunately I didn’t take any of the proposed driveway route.
 
Are you allowed to put the entrance where you want?


Our DOT will usually tell you where you can access for visibility from the road.

I'm assuming if getting bids, that has been established.
 
That’s a question I had as well.
From what the GF and her dad say after speaking with the county, they only specify culvert size at the road where the drive meets.
In Ohio every municipality has a road dept - state, county, city, township, village. I don’t know if one has power over the other , say state over county, This is a definite county road as they maintain it.
 
Both numbers make sense to me, sort of. The good old boys I know would say save your money and just build it on the cheap. A contractor who has worked following engineered drawings on projects is more used to using things like mesh and culverts on everything. If you hired a engineer I know which option they would suggest.

Plenty of side hill roads built on the cheap don’t last forever and don’t have to if you’re ok with having them touched up with a grader and having additional gravel laid down.

On the other hand if you want something that will need minimal maintenance for many decades it takes better water control, a more secure base, more dirt work for a shape that holds up better.

Contractors that are busy often over bid new projects, EVEN for their friends.

Expensive doesn’t mean good. Grid mesh improperly used isn’t automatically better.

Cheap doesn’t mean the best value. Even cheap can be over priced if it has to be redone after an extra wet spring.

In the end it seems incredibly hard to make decisions on something that requires good decision making on the part of the contractor. I always talk with their past clients who have had similar projects. Accurate or biased, every past client will have an opinion. Your project will never turn out better than the contractor’s past projects. In a new area I haven’t built on before I also ask around. Every small residential building contractor uses an excavation company for roads and foundations. If every new house within 5 miles has a road put in by the same guy, there’s the one I’d use and trust his judgement on how it’s built.
 
All I have to add is keeping dirt out of the rock and good drainage is the key to keeping it nicer longer.

The water will go somewhere, so a good design in the beginning may keep from emergency repairs come run off time.

But if you have the patience for potential issues. Doing if cheaper and just addressing things that come up are a way to go.
 
OP it appears your in WV...As someone who currently owms/maintains almost 2 miles of gravel driveways on 2 different parcels on opposite sides of the state.
The Land is moving consistently...the more swales, ditches and culverts you put in the longer you will keep your rd.
From your comments you moving a significant amount of material if drainage is not properly installed, it will all end up at the bottom of the hill after the spring rains. Don't forget to install plantings on the uphill and downhill sides of the road.

Spend the money now or plan on spending money evey year down the road.
Good Luck!
 
Doing this for the last 25 years even from those pictures its hard to tell what is the right way. Water is the enemy so getting it to go where you want with proper drainage and culverts is a good start. Not knowing what the sub base is like its hard to know what to put on top of it and if you even need geo grid. For out here i hate using rock as it just pushed in the ground during our freeze thaw cycle but might not be the case there. Prices dont sound unreasonable but also vary in different regions.
 
From what I can tell from the pictures, I would guess you will want to switchback that driveway. If that's the case, I would run two culverts. I would probably skip the geogrid, but I am from the Inland Northwest. If the subgrade is poor here, we will CTB it. 6" of 1 1/4" agg should hold up pretty good, I like it better than 5/8" for driveways.

Prices vary so much by area, but if I was paying 45k for a driveway, I would hope to be getting it paved.
 
I would see if you can contour that road around to where you need to go instead of cutting through the hillside. Also see if either contractor is going to use a vibratory roller, that helps to really set the road in at times.
 
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