Grad school financial planning with my daughter

[307]

I'm curious, would the mod team be saying the same thing if ThorM465 was spouting racist nonsense? This isn't a difference of opinion, the dude is posting sexist rants on a post about furthering a young women's education.

What you allow determines how people see the forum and right now you are allowing and defending obnoxiously sexist behavior.

I think you're out of line here.

While I don't share the zeal that Thor does, a different world view with a primary focus on family vs career development isn't all that radical of an idea. It's not sexist to acknowledge that women and men are indeed different, and may need to take that into account in plotting out life choices. A wife/mother role is not inherently "less than" a surgeon or engineer role unless it is in your own mind.

The biggest challenge is that significant education debt is "irreversible" in that student loans can't be discharged nor can the asset be sold (like many/most other loans) in the situation where perspectives and priorities may significantly change in the future. It's probably second only to the decision to have children in the permanent impact in a person's life. The timing of this decision compounds its difficulty. Women mostly make the decision on education/career in the early 20's when few of us are primarily focused on children/families. That priority list changes dramatically in the next decade of life for many, but decisions made re education/career can handcuff people from changing their lives to fit their evolving priorities...

It's a tough thing.

 

[ThorM465]

Interesting perspective. Just curious... are you over or under 200 years old? Also, Amish? LOL

No, almost 40.
Men and Women are different and have different duties and responsibilities in society. Peter Pan syndrome is when typically men, but not woman too refuse to grow up and take on their duties and responsibilities. It seems most men are terrified of these responsibilities and are more than happy to allow women to take the burden. While they are terrifying, I'm not willing to pass these on to anyone else.

ThorM- I also hope and expect that my daughter will be a strong, Christian wife and mother. However, I also don't hope that's all she is. Sounds like you believe these are the only roles women should fill. I don't see it that way. That's the beauty about the internet and America- we don't have to see it the same.

I never said that. Respectfully, I'd ask that you go back and read what I've wrote. I have said that everything else pales in comparison in significance and importance. I stand behind that. That's true for men and women, but again our roles and responsibilities are different. That being said I did offer an alternative path that would give women a better balance of both without the drastic sacrifice to having a family.

I'm curious, would the mod team be saying the same thing if ThorM465 was spouting racist nonsense? This isn't a difference of opinion, the dude is posting sexist rants on a post about furthering a young women's education.

What you allow determines how people see the forum and right now you are allowing and defending obnoxiously sexist behavior.

At this point I'm convinced this is a bot. In the off chance I'm wrong. I'm happy to have civil or even heated debate on this. However, only if its on the merits. I have no interest in this level of baseless attacks.

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

@DooleyVT This question also comes up on the Bogleheads forum, which is the Rokslide of rich old guys talking about money. Worth a look.
Edit: here's another one.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

I think you're out of line here.

Appreciate your view, but I disagree. Go ahead and insult another demographic as "not maturing past 16" and see where that goes. His views are outrageously sexist and you are giving him too much grace.

While I don't share the zeal that Thor does, a different world view with a primary focus on family vs career development isn't all that radical of an idea. It's not sexist to acknowledge that women and men are indeed different, and may need to take that into account in plotting out life choices. A wife/mother role is not inherently "less than" a surgeon or engineer role unless it is in your own mind.

Again, too much grace. That is not the situation he is pushing forward. Read his words. Men can be father + something, women are only mother. See the difference? He does not believe women are equal nor as capable as men.

The biggest challenge is that significant education debt is "irreversible" in that student loans can't be discharged nor can the asset be sold (like many/most other loans) in the situation where perspectives and priorities may significantly change in the future. It's probably second only to the decision to have children in the permanent impact in a person's life. The timing of this decision compounds its difficulty. Women mostly make the decision on education/career in the early 20's when few of us are primarily focused on children/families. That priority list changes dramatically in the next decade of life for many, but decisions made re education/career can handcuff people from changing their lives to fit their evolving priorities...

It's a tough thing.

Would you be saying the same thing if OP was talking about his son? Would his fertile years suddenly be a topic of interest? Why as adoption never been brought up if taking care of children is so important?

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

At this point I'm convinced this is a bot. In the off chance I'm wrong. I'm happy to have civil or even heated debate on this. However, only if its on the merits. I have no interest in this level of baseless attacks.

I must be a bot because I disagree with your backwards world view. Okay, please explain why you think women do not mature mentally past 16 without a child?

 

[ThorM465]

You are proving my point. Kindergarten kids don’t have nearly enough perspective on life to take their claims/desires as valid evidence of widespread cultural change, whether you agree with them or not.

I never said that. I said that it's an indicator of a change in culture. In fairness, it's only one small indicator. However, it is significant and warrants hope.

Honestly, I didn't give this a lot of thought until I saw other parents posting on social media about this happening at other kindergarten graduation ceremonies. I do think this is a result of significant change in culture.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

I never said that. I said that it's an indicator of a change in culture. In fairness, it's only one small indicator. However, it is significant and warrants hope.

Honestly, I didn't give this a lot of thought until I saw other parents posting on social media about this happening at other kindergarten graduation ceremonies. I do think this is a result of significant change in culture.

Little girls are raised by their mothers, what a shock they want to be like mommy. This is why we have programs to show little girls they can excel in math and science when their fathers are telling them they are only good for raising babies.

 

[180ls1]

The application of said advice is probably what is most missing in this discussion. While none of us know her like her Dad does, even if we grant the notion that her path is sub-optimal (we all make various sub-optimal life choices) would she actually adhere to the hypothetical "most ideal path?"

I am guessing not. People with that type of drive are very head strong and will likely do what they want anyways. It is best to work with that rather than against it so she does have choices when/if it changes down the road.

 

[MallardSX2]

I wont give my kid a dollar towards college. If she wants that path in life, she will face the burden of the bills. I'm not going to work another 10 years so that my kid can decide in 20- years that she doesn't like doing that job anymore.

Make your kids have some skin in the game people. Not everything needs to be served up on a silver platter.....

It blows my mind how much $$$ people are willing to give their kids.

No wonder kids are so soft these days.

 

[ThorM465]

Appreciate your view, but I disagree. Go ahead and insult another demographic as "not maturing past 16" and see where that goes. His views are outrageously sexist and you are giving him too much grace.


Again, too much grace. That is not the situation he is pushing forward. Read his words. Men can be father + something, women are only mother. See the difference? He does not believe women are equal nor as capable as men.


Would you be saying the same thing if OP was talking about his son? Would his fertile years suddenly be a topic of interest? Why as adoption never been brought up if taking care of children is so important?

Men do not mature into adulthood until they take on responsibility and face adversity. Women don't mature into adulthood until they have a child. We're different, that's not sexist.

Equality does not exist in nature. The idea that it does is delusional. It's great that we implement it where feasible, but its not always feasible and sometimes detrimental. E.g., the female officer in the recent canadian shooting. Women are not as capable as men is some respects and in some respects men are not as capable as women.
Let me be clear I do believe that Men and Women are made in the imagine of God and that gives us great inherent value. I believe that when necessary that men are disposable and women and children are not.

I did discuss my sons and my expectations for them. It also centers around being Fathers and Husbands.

I must be a bot because I disagree with your backwards world view. Okay, please explain why you think women do not mature mentally past 16 without a child?

I already did that, go back and check. It's largely a result of significant biological and anatomical changes that take place.

 

[JohnB]

When I was a kindergartener I told my mom that I didn't want to go to college because it would mean I'd have to move away from home. Boy that mentality changed.

 

[307]

Little girls are raised by their mothers, what a shock they want to be like mommy. This is why we have programs to show little girls they can excel in math and science when their fathers are telling them they are only good for raising babies.

Are they not raised by their fathers too?

Are their mothers incapable of showing little girls that they can excel in math and science? Why would you assume that their mothers are only capable of raising babies?

 

[CorbLand]

 

[fngTony]

i’m not gonna get into the weeds of peoples different opinions posted in this thread, but I will say that I did not see any terrible remarks just some things that others did not agree with. At some point, the conversation did get a bit unnecessarily nitpicky with each other and straying off topic. We give a longer leash on these threads if it is actually hunting related, but since this one is not hunting related, we are not going to babysit it anymore.