Gotta love the Montana shoulder season

[Jason Snyder]

Jmez,

The problem with the guy who charges is that he just perpetuates the problem that has been building for many years. It's not hard to solve an elk issue if all parties work together.

This is an elk pattern issue that has been created by the presence of refuges on private land. If four neighbors work together and one doesn't, it may greatly hinder the efforts and reduce the success.

I can't say for certain that no one will pay this guy 500 bucks. I highly doubt it. If I were his neighbors I would be fuming.



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[Trial153]

It's amazing to me the lengths people will go to redefine greed at any cost with the bull shit excuses that it's nothing but capitalism.
Let's call a spade a spade and greed greed.

 

[5MilesBack]

Also, implementing rifle hunts on public land during the early fall would be the absolute worst decision one could make, for all involved parties. It would:

Reduce available elk on public land - it would reduce overall elk populations to whatever level the F&G is after......which I believe is their objective.
Put more pressure on public land elk to migrate to private land sanctuaries/refuges - the elk are "obviously" already migrating to private land, this would migrate less elk because hopefully the rifle hunters could be competent enough to reduce those populations.
Further exacerbate elk movement patterns to private land to escape hunting pressure - already stated.
Do nothing to alleviate damage concerns on private land. - do nothing? Please explain how reducing the overall elk population through the shoulder season somehow is supposed to alleviate the damage, but reducing the overall elk population does nothing to alleviate it??

There are some VERY legitimate reasons to have shoulder seasons. Some ranchers continue to suffer from elk damage with no mechanism to alleviate it, because of elk movement patterns, a large neighboring ranch that doesn't allow hunting, etc. If landowners work in concert, they can help each other out. If they are only out for themselves, they may very well screw their neighbor.

The issuance of vouchers does absolutely nothing to help bring elk populations to within the parameters that are mandated by law.

I'm not even sure how to address your voucher statement........as it absolutely can and does bring populations within their objective levels if they issue enough of them.

The bottom line here is that without complete extermination, there will always be some form of damage from the elk on these private ranches regardless of what the population objectives are. So, the F&G has to make their decisions (hopefully competently) and the ranchers have to make their decisions. But the F&G has absolutely no control or authority over these ranchers except within the law, implied, intent, good faith, or otherwise. If they want to charge for access, so be it. Nobody is forcing anyone to do these hunts, and nobody has an "entitlement" to these hunts. If one can get permission for free access, then buy a tag. If one is willing to pay for access.......then buy a tag. It's pretty simple.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've noticed a theme for you is to cherry pick certain sentences and twist them to fit your weird agenda's...no agenda's, I just take what I'm given, no twisting needed. Just follow it all step by step and it falls into place.

I absolutely would complain about being charged access to hunt a property that felt having elk was a burden. I absolutely feel it's ridiculous that a program set up to ease the cost associated with elk to landowners should be an opportunity for that same landowner to make a buck. That's not what the program was for as has been stated I don't know 20 times in this thread. You may disagree but it's pretty Much everywhere that this program has ever been mentioned. This thread, meeting agenda, the FWP website, meeting minutes. And I've heard it said those many times, but F&G's "intent" and reality seem to be two different things. If they don't like the reality of what's happening......they can attempt to change that within their own limitations. And the biggest of those limitations is somehow thinking they have control over the decisions a rancher makes concerning his property. Life is all about choices, if they don't like what the ranchers do with the shoulder season, then don't give them one. But don't cry about it when reality turns out different than they planned.

It is illegal to sell food stamps, just like it shouldn't be allowed to sell access for s program that benefits landowners. "Shouldn't be allowed"......the only benefit I see the landowners getting is a way to somehow alleviate the cost of damages, yet you want that to be illegal. Until it is illegal, it is not illegal. You also have thrown around the term "profit" a few times. Do you know what that term means? If you lost $100k, yet somehow picked up $50k to help recover those losses......are you making a "profit"?

A thesis is absolutely a paper, although it's a paper composed up of an idea that you vet and substantiate with research that you do ON YOUR OWN normally given to a board in an attempt to garner further education degrees or provided for peer review in journals. Yes......and it stands as I stated originally.......perhaps I would use it and publish it in some economic journals. But I won't tell you what I would title it.

If you did some research about this maybe you wouldn't be screaming anti capitalism and free access for all nonsense. I do agree.......free access for all would be nonsense in this situation.

Either way this thread and this topic has run its course.

Finally........something we can agree on. Thumbs up.

It is very obvious in our country today, especially given the election cycle we're in.........that we are indeed a country of two absolutely polar opposites in ideologies and reason.

 

[ricknmontana]

Gotta give FWP credit. Finally figured a way to unload all the unsold N.R. elk tags! There has been about $1.5-2 million in unsold tags for several years. Now, let's add more units into shoulder seasons and get back to a one in three chance for N.R. to draw like it used to be!!

 

[slick]

Edit: fed the troll

I've said what I wanted, and more so others have come on here and stated my exact feelings. It's a shame that this is what is has come to.