Getting best of both worlds - "standard" and long-range riflescope?

[Gone4Days]

there are dozens of threads on these topics already.

 

[BigE]

If you want to go the FFP route, check out the Trijicon Tenmile. Lots of threads on this scope here.

 

[SDHNTR]

I guess I should be asking about the warranties on these scopes... are they comparable to Vortex's warranty?

Noticed there's no Vortex mentioned here...

Vortex sells a warranty. Junk scopes with a good warranty. They spend their money marketing and on warranty claims instead of a quality product. Hard pass! Ever notice how no one ever talks about the Nightforce warranty? Yep, because it’s not needed.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Vortex sells a warranty. Junk scopes with a good warranty. They spend their money marketing and on warranty claims instead of a quality product. Hard pass! Ever notice how no one ever talks about the Nightforce warranty? Yep, because it’s not needed.

Funny you mention this because I have needed the NF warranty and they sucked to deal with, so much that I sold over a dozen NF optics that I owned at the time and swore the company off.

Right after the 5-25 ATACR F1’s came out I bought two of them and a 4-16x42 at the same time. Put one of the 5-25’s on my AI AXMC and was shooting it when after about 40 rounds total the optic lost focus. Tried to focus it again and could not, something clearly failed to be in focus and go out. I called NF who told me I don’t know how to focus an optic basically and it was me, completely ignoring the fact that the optic had been focused. It was like pulling teeth to get an RMA to send it back in.

When I receive the scope back they said they adjusted the parralax in the work order. I mounted it back up and no matter what I did the optic could not be both in focus and parralax free. I tried both my method of looking into the sky on max power and infinity and focusing it (a method I’ve used for two decades on hundreds of optics) as well as their method of doing it indoors on a white wall to no avail. Either the target was in focus but there was parralax error or it was parralax free but out of focus. Called NF again who parroted the same shit and would not let me send it back in, period. They completely ignored the failure and the fact that I owned an identical 5-25 ATACR that was working just fine as well as a 4-16 as well as a dozen of their NXS F1’s plus several S&B’s at the same time.

You do have less of a chance of needing the NF warranty than Vortex especially with the lines other than their Razors, but god help you if you do because their customer service sucks ass.

I do dislike that Vortex is a marketing company and all of their scopes except the Razor’s are junk IMO but the Razors are quite nice (made by LOW just like the Japanese NF’s, SWFA’s, and Bushnells) and their lower end binos are great for the $$. I only needed their warranty on a Razor once and it was the original 5-20 which did have some issues. I’ve beat the shit out of some Razor 1-6’s and even have one of the dreaded 4.5-22 LHT’s that got such a bad review on here from being dropped on a padded case in the snow that has been excellent. I strapped mine to my flat bed and bounced it around the property in 4 low twice to see if they were so delicate and it held up.

 

[SDHNTR]

Funny you mention this because I have needed the NF warranty and they sucked to deal with, so much that I sold over a dozen NF optics that I owned at the time and swore the company off.

Right after the 5-25 ATACR F1’s came out I bought two of them and a 4-16x42 at the same time. Put one of the 5-25’s on my AI AXMC and was shooting it when after about 40 rounds total the optic lost focus. Tried to focus it again and could not, something clearly failed to be in focus and go out. I called NF who told me I don’t know how to focus an optic basically and it was me, completely ignoring the fact that the optic had been focused. It was like pulling teeth to get an RMA to send it back in.

When I receive the scope back they said they adjusted the parralax in the work order. I mounted it back up and no matter what I did the optic could not be both in focus and parralax free. I tried both my method of looking into the sky on max power and infinity and focusing it (a method I’ve used for two decades on hundreds of optics) as well as their method of doing it indoors on a white wall to no avail. Either the target was in focus but there was parralax error or it was parralax free but out of focus. Called NF again who parroted the same shit and would not let me send it back in, period. They completely ignored the failure and the fact that I owned an identical 5-25 ATACR that was working just fine as well as a 4-16 as well as a dozen of their NXS F1’s plus several S&B’s at the same time.

You do have less of a chance of needing the NF warranty than Vortex especially with the lines other than their Razors, but god help you if you do because their customer service sucks ass.

I do dislike that Vortex is a marketing company and all of their scopes except the Razor’s are junk IMO but the Razors are quite nice (made by LOW just like the Japanese NF’s, SWFA’s, and Bushnells) and their lower end binos are great for the $$. I only needed their warranty on a Razor once and it was the original 5-20 which did have some issues. I’ve beat the shit out of some Razor 1-6’s and even have one of the dreaded 4.5-22 LHT’s that got such a bad review on here from being dropped on a padded case in the snow that has been excellent. I strapped mine to my flat bed and bounced it around the property in 4 low twice to see if they were so delicate and it held up.

Wow, you’re a unicorn.

The Razor series is definitely a step up in glass. Very nice glass. But the good stops there. Bump it around a bit and forget about your zero. Just see the tests on this site. Plenty of info.

 

[TheHammer]

I don't see that one on Scheel's. 3.5x is the lowest mag, and the only 50mm has a 28x max zoom.

I was in a store, sorry for not stating that. Was a v5 I believe, I was thinking about switching all my rigs to swaro. But decided against it due to the service I was provided. And ended up with a 4-16x50 hslr vortex.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Wow, you’re a unicorn.

The Razor series is definitely a step up in glass. Very nice glass. But the good stops there. Bump it around a bit and forget about your zero. Just see the tests on this site. Plenty of info.

See this is the stuff that gets regurgitated into a “reputation”.

I’m not a unicorn, there was just another thread on snipershide where another guy had his 4-16x42 ATACR do the same thing my 5-25 did and others chimed in too. Every 6 months or so a thread pops up there with a parralax failure with an ATACR. NF’s break too and there’s obviously some sort of a flaw with that optic for it to continue to happen.

Regarding the Razor, it’s the 4.5-22 that’s in that article that you’re referencing so it’s not Razors in general. The 1-6 Razor is possibly one of the toughest optics made and is used by SOCOM and they get the shit beat out of them and work.

Regarding the LHT line, specifically the 4.5-22 and it’s ‘fragileness’, that’s one review with one optic and one user, there are plenty of postive articles out there on the optic. There’s an extensive thread about that optic on snipershide too where that review is regurgitated several times but of all the people on there that have and use them only one other person has mentioned having an issue holding zero. So Razors are junk because two people had issues? All optics fail so I guess they’re all junk.

I decided to do my own light torture test on mine that was far harsher than the review where it failed to hold zero from being dropped a few inches onto a padded case in the snow. I strapped mine to the bed of my truck and drove the 3/4 mile down the property to my range on paths that hadn’t been maintained in 3+ years, two very rough and rocky creek crossings and in 4 low bouncing around. The creek crossings were violent. I did this twice 1.5 miles each trip for a total of 3 miles and the rifle cut the center dot out of the stick on target. When that failed to make it shift I grabbed an 18” piece of 2x4 and started whacking the scope on different places between shots… still no zero shift. So mine has absolutely no issue holding zero after much worse treatment.

 

[Formidilosus]

See this is the stuff that gets regurgitated into a “reputation”.

I’m not a unicorn, there was just another thread on snipershide where another guy had his 4-16x42 ATACR do the same thing my 5-25 did and others chimed in too. Every 6 months or so a thread pops up there with a parralax failure with an ATACR. NF’s break too and there’s obviously some sort of a flaw with that optic for it to continue to happen.

All scopes have a failure rate. All scopes can be broken. That is not the same as all scopes have the same failure rate or all scopes break from the same things. One has to actually seek to find NF failures, you do not have to do that with most others.

Regarding the Razor, it’s the 4.5-22 that’s in that article that you’re referencing so it’s not Razors in general. The 1-6 Razor is possibly one of the toughest optics made and is used by SOCOM and they get the shit beat out of them and work.

This is where not knowing what you don’t know comes in and blind faith that some affiliation with a unit (any unit) had any validity. There have been plenty of failures with the 1-6x Razors- I’ve had four catastrophic failures alone before 3,500 rounds, and have seen quite a few more. 1-6x razor problems are not “rare”, there have been plenty of posts in multiple forums from multiple people about it. If I could get them to work and hold zero consistently, they absolutely would be my choice for a SFP 1-6x.

Regarding the LHT line, specifically the 4.5-22 and it’s ‘fragileness’, that’s one review with one optic and one user, there are plenty of postive articles out there on the optic. There’s an extensive thread about that optic on snipershide too where that review is regurgitated several times but of all the people on there that have and use them only one other person has mentioned having an issue holding zero.

No, there were two other people that had the same scope fail, and one recreated the drop portion and found the same problems. I have seen quite a few of the LHT’s and all exhibited zero shifts from impacts/drops.

So Razors are junk because two people had issues? All optics fail so I guess they’re all junk.

How many scopes of the same model with the same failure would you need to see before you realized that there is a problem with the optic/manufacturer? I’ve seen enough LHT’s that I am quite sure of the outcome. Since you have the scope, and Vortex has a great warranty, would you please follow the procedure outlined in the scope eval threads and show how yours does in the drop portion?

I decided to do my own light torture test on mine that was far harsher than the review where it failed to hold zero from being dropped a few inches onto a padded case in the snow. I strapped mine to the bed of my truck and drove the 3/4 mile down the property to my range on paths that hadn’t been maintained in 3+ years, two very rough and rocky creek crossings and in 4 low bouncing around. The creek crossings were violent. I did this twice 1.5 miles each trip for a total of 3 miles and the rifle cut the center dot out of the stick on target. When that failed to make it shift I grabbed an 18” piece of 2x4 and started whacking the scope on different places between shots… still no zero shift. So mine has absolutely no issue holding zero after much worse treatment.

How is a rifle strapped down a “test” of anything? It can’t move. What is smacking a scope with a 2x4 showing?

 

[SDHNTR]

See this is the stuff that gets regurgitated into a “reputation”.

I’m not a unicorn, there was just another thread on snipershide where another guy had his 4-16x42 ATACR do the same thing my 5-25 did and others chimed in too. Every 6 months or so a thread pops up there with a parralax failure with an ATACR. NF’s break too and there’s obviously some sort of a flaw with that optic for it to continue to happen.

Regarding the Razor, it’s the 4.5-22 that’s in that article that you’re referencing so it’s not Razors in general. The 1-6 Razor is possibly one of the toughest optics made and is used by SOCOM and they get the shit beat out of them and work.

Regarding the LHT line, specifically the 4.5-22 and it’s ‘fragileness’, that’s one review with one optic and one user, there are plenty of postive articles out there on the optic. There’s an extensive thread about that optic on snipershide too where that review is regurgitated several times but of all the people on there that have and use them only one other person has mentioned having an issue holding zero. So Razors are junk because two people had issues? All optics fail so I guess they’re all junk.

I decided to do my own light torture test on mine that was far harsher than the review where it failed to hold zero from being dropped a few inches onto a padded case in the snow. I strapped mine to the bed of my truck and drove the 3/4 mile down the property to my range on paths that hadn’t been maintained in 3+ years, two very rough and rocky creek crossings and in 4 low bouncing around. The creek crossings were violent. I did this twice 1.5 miles each trip for a total of 3 miles and the rifle cut the center dot out of the stick on target. When that failed to make it shift I grabbed an 18” piece of 2x4 and started whacking the scope on different places between shots… still no zero shift. So mine has absolutely no issue holding zero after much worse treatment.

I’m glad you’ve had good luck with them. 3 of the 5 different vortex scopes I have owned failed one way or another. Sent all 3 back and sold the replacements. Sold the remaining two also, before they gave me trouble.

I also own a pile of NXS and SHV’s and never a lick of trouble with any of em.

Don’t even get me started on Swarovski…. I used to love them!

 

[NateTP38]

If I could get them to work and hold zero consistently, they absolutely would be my choice for a SFP 1-6x.

Curious - what is your choice for a low power SFP?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

All scopes have a failure rate. All scopes can be broken. That is not the same as all scopes have the same failure rate or all scopes break from the same things. One has to actually seek to find NF failures, you do not have to do that with most others.




This is where not knowing what you don’t know comes in and blind faith that some affiliation with a unit (any unit) had any validity. There have been plenty of failures with the 1-6x Razors- I’ve had four catastrophic failures alone before 3,500 rounds, and have seen quite a few more. 1-6x razor problems are not “rare”, there have been plenty of posts in multiple forums from multiple people about it. If I could get them to work and hold zero consistently, they absolutely would be my choice for a SFP 1-6x.





No, there were two other people that had the same scope fail, and one recreated the drop portion and found the same problems. I have seen quite a few of the LHT’s and all exhibited zero shifts from impacts/drops.





How many scopes of the same model with the same failure would you need to see before you realized that there is a problem with the optic/manufacturer? I’ve seen enough LHT’s that I am quite sure of the outcome. Since you have the scope, and Vortex has a great warranty, would you please follow the procedure outlined in the scope eval threads and show how yours does in the drop portion?





How is a rifle strapped down a “test” of anything? It can’t move. What is smacking a scope with a 2x4 showing?

I know of plenty of NF optics that have failed. Overall Vortex has higher failure rates because they have several lower end lines made in China and the Phillipines that are pieces of shit.

Where are those other accounts from others? I’d like to read them. I’ve not heard of any significant failures with the 1-6’s, they are extremely reliable.

That strapped down rifle got thrashed around far harder than a rifle dropped into snow. The 2x4 smacks easily duplicated the impact from a fall of several feet and nothing happened other than scratching the finish.

What is the eval process?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’m glad you’ve had good luck with them. 3 of the 5 different vortex scopes I have owned failed one way or another. Sent all 3 back and sold the replacements. Sold the remaining two also, before they gave me trouble.

I also own a pile of NXS and SHV’s and never a lick of trouble with any of em.

Don’t even get me started on Swarovski…. I used to love them!

Which models where those that failed?

 

[SDHNTR]

2 cheapo Crossfires (totally expected), and a Razor 3-15.

 

[Formidilosus]

Curious - what is your choice for a low power SFP?

Trijicon if I had to have a SFP. But FFP models that are solid are readily available.

 

[hawkman71]

Not be selfish, guys, but...

 

[JGRaider]

Anybody know how reliable the Athlon Helos 2-12x has been? In spite of it's Chicom heritage, it checks several boxes that I like.

 

[billoo349]

The LRHS2 is not discontinued. It is only made for, and available from GA Precision.

It has upgraded glass, throw lever, and locking wind turret instead of capped, like the Gen 1....

It is basically a LRTS with the donut-of-death reticle.

According to gap they are out of stock of the lrhs2 with an estimated restock late spring 2023

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW ace using Tapatalk

 

[huntsman22]

in my best Forrest Gump voice, "Well they ARE worth waiting for. That's all I have to say about that".....