Get your business in order

[TaperPin]

Sorry to hear about the family loss - not an easy situation on many levels.

I was doing work on a young couples house when a phone call came in from their grandmother - her husband had recently died and it seemed she was keeping busy talking with family - the family owned a large southern bakery at the time. As a remodeler you just blend in with house and people tend to be themselves after a few months and talk openly around you. The grandma asked them what they would like their next nicer house to be - they mentioned a great brick house in a nicer neighborhood that always grabbed their attention, but is way out of their price range, but maybe someday. Granny told them to make an offer that day and she will wire them the money to buy it outright and pay off their existing mortgage.

Turned out grandpa had a large secret slush fund that he kept from grandma, so she was buying all the grandkids new houses to get rid of every last cent of it.

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

A close friend lost his father suddenly recently as well. His father was very wealthy but handled all finances himself. My friend and his brother now have the help their mother work through things while they are all in the throws of grief.

He owned several farms in the area worth many millions of dollars and they found out he also owned a farm nobody else knew about. It was apparently going to be a gift.

My wife and I went though the steps of creating a will and making sure there is enough coverage everywhere there need to be. There is no time like the present to put things in order.

 

[TJfromTX]

Sorry for everyone's loss.
This just came up on my radar when both my wife and I took a trip a few weeks ago for a friends wedding (involving flying) and left my 15 y.o. at home with family for the first time. Started thinking about what would happen if something happened to one (or both) of us, and decided on purchasing an encrypted usb drive to store everything. Should arrive later this week. Planning on putting passwords, accounts, how to's, specifics on assets, insurance info, pretty much everything on it, to make it as easy as possible. Just in case. Would hate to leave loved ones in a bind.

 

[KenLee]

Sorry to hear about the family loss - not an easy situation on many levels.

I was doing work on a young couples house when a phone call came in from their grandmother - her husband had recently died and it seemed she was keeping busy talking with family - the family owned a large southern bakery at the time. As a remodeler you just blend in with house and people tend to be themselves after a few months and talk openly around you. The grandma asked them what they would like their next nicer house to be - they mentioned a great brick house in a nicer neighborhood that always grabbed their attention, but is way out of their price range, but maybe someday. Granny told them to make an offer that day and she will wire them the money to buy it outright and pay off their existing mortgage.

Turned out grandpa had a large secret slush fund that he kept from grandma, so she was buying all the grandkids new houses to get rid of every last cent of it.

Spectacular way to make tax free $ taxable.

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, nobody wants to talk about mortality....sooner is always better and it saved my fam a fortune in Taxes and will again when my wife and I pass away.

 

[Wetwork]

Im in the middle of such things myself. Parents both alive in their 80's, Mom did all the admin, Dad doesn't know much of anything just the physical labor on our ranch. Both are slipping now memory wise so my wife and I are in rush mode. Cobble that with a horrific scam attack that took them for about 3K, Had to close all accounts and get new ones, had to change all the bill pays ect. and unfortunately had to get rid of the internet all together. My folks have gotten to the point they dont recognize the wolves from the sheep.

One thing I discovered is trusts have to be updated and offically checked on every 18 months(at least ours did) If they aren't updated it pretty much voids the trust and it will have to be done all over again. Tech seems to be lost on most folks in their 70's and 80's...lost passwords, lost emails, lost deeds and titles. We aren't in dire straights or anything its just a mess that needs to be straightened up. Good Luck.-WW

 

[Rich M]

He should try to get a poa done just after mom's first cup of coffee in the morning. Sometimes a person clearly w dementia can be "there" early in the day. I say thus after 17 yrs dealing w my Mama's Alzheimers.

I'll pass that along and see if it helps. The guy has taken to bringing the documents with him every day to see if he can catch her at a "good time".

 

[Rob5589]

It's never too early to plan. Plenty of younger people die every day due to tragic/unforeseen circumstances.

 

[mckbcat2000]

I learned my lesson years ago. My wife has 4 kids from a previous marriage. Her ex-father-in-law AND ex-husband died within 3 days of each other. Grandpa had a good amount of $, house, and building. The Dad had retirement $ to pass on and life insurance. NEITHER HAD A WILL!!! The siblings of my wife's ex-husband sued my wife's 4 kids and it was a long, drawn out ordeal I swore I'd never deal with as I'll have my ducks in a row. It tore an entire side of a family apart 18 years ago and they'll never talk again. Thankfully I was on the sidelines watching it all play out.

 

[CorbLand]

For those that are dealing with it one smart thing that my grandma did.

My dad passed away when I was young and my grandma (dads mom) changed all the inheritance from my dad to us kids. Basically, set it up so that if something happened to my mom, and my grandma wasnt able to do anything, my dads siblings couldnt cut us out. It also hedged against my mom getting remarried, not having anything to do with my dads family any more but having to deal with inheritance when that time came.

I would also suggest talking with your kids about things. They will most likely be the ones that have to deal with it and some people act like its this noble thing to not talk about finances with their kids. In the end, its a giant disservice.

 

[SloppyJ]

I was put into my mom's place when she passed away back in 2018 on my grandparent's will. Unfortunately we lost my grandma last year and I got to learn a LOT about inheritance and what I need to be doing to protect my family WHEN (not if) I pass.

All of the investments were setup with beneficiaries as me and my two aunts. Inheriting multiple IRAs in December and having to figure out if the minimum distributions have been taken before the deadline (end of year) was something that I wish upon no one. Dealing with greasy financial people who are obviously taking advantage of elderly was also an experience that I wish upon no one. I found some really messed up items on some of these accounts.

I'm sorry for your loss but I whole heartedly support this post.

 

[KenLee]

I was put into my mom's place when she passed away back in 2018 on my grandparent's will. Unfortunately we lost my grandma last year and I got to learn a LOT about inheritance and what I need to be doing to protect my family WHEN (not if) I pass.

All of the investments were setup with beneficiaries as me and my two aunts. Inheriting multiple IRAs in December and having to figure out if the minimum distributions have been taken before the deadline (end of year) was something that I wish upon no one. Dealing with greasy financial people who are obviously taking advantage of elderly was also an experience that I wish upon no one. I found some really messed up items on some of these accounts.

I'm sorry for your loss but I whole heartedly support this post.

Speaking of the "churn and burn" financial advisors, I assume?

 

[dpat]

I've been a funeral director for 30 years and people not having their affairs in order or sharing with anyone either family or trusted friends what they want as their finial wishes does no-one any good. It is mind blowing the number of people who don't have a will. The courts will decide who gets what if you don't. Remember P.O.A.'s end at death.

Something I see a lot is one spouse takes care of the financials and the other spouse knows little to nothing about them and is lost when that person is gone. At the very least write down a list of everything, where the money is at, insurance policy's, deeds and titles to property put it in a safe and let someone know where its at.
Update all your beneficiaries, its just complicates things if not up to date.

A few hours and a few hundred to a few thousand dollars to set up a will with a lawyer or if you have a lot of assets a trust which saves dealing with probate is well worth it.

I've seen a lot of family's go at each other and totally break a family apart over money, because they think they deserve this or that not someone else. If a will or trust has been done and beneficiaries updated it takes away most of the family problems.

Most people don't do the necessary steps to set up their estate because they then must face their own immortality, and they don't want to think about it.

 

[TaperPin]

Spectacular way to make tax free $ taxable.

Oh I’m not too worried about anyone in that family - from what I understand all the grandkids have healthy trust funds in addition to the new houses.

 

[5MilesBack]

Sorry for your loss. It really can turn into a real crap show when things aren't set up well beforehand.

My dad went on O2 when he was 84, so he brought me up to speed on everything he had and gave me POA, and even added me to his financial accounts to be able to do transactions. He passed away two years later in 2015 and my mom was the executor, but I ended up doing most everything for her. Our lawyer has been a family friend for decades, so everything was in order and things went smoothly. Then my mom passed away in 2021 and I got to do it all over again. It was easier this time though as I had consolidated a lot of the accounts and assets to make things easier. I have two older sisters, one on each coast, and they wouldn't have had a clue what to do if they would have had to.

There really are a lot of things that come up that most people don't think about ahead of time. And ya, just getting cable or satellite, and cell phones canceled etc turns into a pain in the rear. But I had no problem selling or transferring estate vehicles, and real estate, etc.

 

[AZ8]

I've been a funeral director for 30 years and people not having their affairs in order or sharing with anyone either family or trusted friends what they want as their finial wishes does no-one any good. It is mind blowing the number of people who don't have a will. The courts will decide who gets what if you don't. Remember P.O.A.'s end at death.

Something I see a lot is one spouse takes care of the financials and the other spouse knows little to nothing about them and is lost when that person is gone. At the very least write down a list of everything, where the money is at, insurance policy's, deeds and titles to property put it in a safe and let someone know where its at.
Update all your beneficiaries, its just complicates things if not up to date.

A few hours and a few hundred to a few thousand dollars to set up a will with a lawyer or if you have a lot of assets a trust which saves dealing with probate is well worth it.

I've seen a lot of family's go at each other and totally break a family apart over money, because they think they deserve this or that not someone else. If a will or trust has been done and beneficiaries updated it takes away most of the family problems.

Most people don't do the necessary steps to set up their estate because they then must face their own immortality, and they don't want to think about it.

And have the cemetery plots already purchased. My mom and dad did that and not having to deal with it when the time came with zero stress!

 

[fwafwow]

Spectacular way to make tax free $ taxable.

How so?

 

[Tmac]

So very good advice here. Especially remember what @dpat said, a POA expires at death. Three things I’d add.

1. A list of what your guns are worth, not what you told her you paid… Also a list of which gun goes to whom if not selling them.

2. Whoever will be the executor/administrator, if there is no trust, not a bad idea to have one account with both names on it with some $ in it, 40-50k is not too much. Then they can pay bills, etc. while the estate is probated, as these $ will be outside the estate. Just account for it and disburse to heirs when appropriate as a gift.

3. A clause in the will that any heir that contests gets $1.00. Makes it near impossible to challenge unless major changes were made while impaired. If there are any difficult heirs or more likely spouses, meet with the lawyer now and go over the will and the problem person.

At best it sucks, if you are prepared at least the suck is controlled to a significant degree. We just went through it, I was the one it all fell to. We had one big problem spouse, but I was a step ahead the whole way and just did my job with little drama as she could not do a thing. The $1.00 clause was like a magic chill pill.

 

[KenLee]

How so?

Gift tax on anything over 18k a year to each individual.

 

[fwafwow]

Sorry for everyone's losses. Great thread OP. I had an accident a few years ago and realized I was the cliche of the cobbler's kids having no shoes. I buckled down and updated my stuff, and adopted a schedule to update periodically. Also discussing with the family is great advice. I've gotten as direct as "when I die, here are the lists and places you need to go, people to call, location of accounts, documents and passwords" etc.

More thoughts in response to some of the points made.

I had posted this somewhere else but ill quote it here

Great thread.

The biggest issue at the moment is dealing with Verizon to get her phone canceled. My blood pressure will go up trying to elaborate further. but make sure the verification/account pin is available somewhere. Verizon is a garbage company with nothing in place to deal with these matters short of driving to a corporate store.

This is a great reason to use a password manager, and to provide a mechanism (sometimes that's a feature in the PWM) for others to be able to access it. Dealing with VZW online is a lot easier (if you can login) than dealing with them by phone. Similarly, get your parents to create online accounts with government agencies (SSA, VA, etc.), it's a lot easier to deal with address changes, etc.

Fortunately, my folks did do quite a bit for death planning, but my dad certainly could have helped by unloading stuff he’d never use in his 70’s. Just so it’s clear, the man who dies with the most toys, doesn’t win in my book. He just leaves a lot of work for his family after he passes.

^^^This. I had to clear out a boat load of stuff that my parents kept and since they are still living, the level of guilt for throwing stuff out was high. I hope to not do the same to my kids, but so far (in large part due to RS), I'm failing.

Also know the location of your loved ones will.

First have one, and make sure folks know where it is as you stated. My cousin just died and the cousins scoured the house - no Will to be found. And she died with cancer, so it wasn't a surprise.

My wife and I are early 40s. My wife handles the day to day finances but I do the investments, long term stuff. Every quarter, we go over everything we have, make sure passwords are in a secure yet known location for the other to find if something bad happens.

Excellent advice.

We update our will every couple of years to reflect any life changes. We have younger kids (9 and 13). We have it spelled it out in detail who would care for the kids if something happened to both of us, where and how their finances are accessed (college funds etc.)

More great advice - most people do not update their documents on a timely basis.

100% agree...get everything in order and the people that will benefit/receive stuff should all be informed TOGETHER about it. So if all your stuff is going to your wife and kids. Once finalized everyone is in a room together. If there are brothers, sisters, cousins, friends getting anything significant...have others with you when you explain it. Spell everything out to a T if possible. None of this "well he told me..."

Meh - not sure about this. I haven't seen it done, and most people are very hesitant to even tell their kids what they will get, much less more extended family. My experience of not seeing it doesn't mean that it's a wrong approach, but what if you change your mind in part? If you say your brother is getting the RSS in one meeting, but then later want to give it to your son. Do you have another meeting?

Interesting this topic came up. We actually have an appointment in a couple weeks with the Estate lawyer to go over everything again and update things since Dad passed. We've kinda let things be as staus quo, but my mom's financial portfolio has changed, assests added and/or sold, so some clean up is needed.

I should have said earlier, but you need to hire a lawyer for the Will and/or trust. As for whether a trust makes sense (in addition to a Will), that can depend. A living or revocable trust can avoid probate, but only if and to the extent funded during life. And funding during life involves some time and effort.

My folks have gotten to the point they dont recognize the wolves from the sheep.

I hear you. I'm fortunate that my parents never set up much in the way of online access, and we shut down some of their other stuff to mitigate these problems.

One thing I discovered is trusts have to be updated and offically checked on every 18 months(at least ours did) If they aren't updated it pretty much voids the trust and it will have to be done all over again.

I would like to know where you heard this, as it isn't correct. You should update your documents periodically, but they don't become invalid if you don't.

So very good advice here. Especially remember what @dpat said, a POA expires at death. Three things I’d add.

1. A list of what your guns are worth, not what you told her you paid… Also a list of which gun goes to whom if not selling them.

That's a good idea. I haven't done this yet, and shudder at the results...

3. A clause in the will that any heir that contests gets $1.00. Makes it near impossible to challenge unless major changes were made while impaired. If there are any difficult heirs or more likely spouses, meet with the lawyer now and go over the will and the problem person.

I think the ability to include this (an in terrorem clause) varies by state, and it may have less impact on a surviving spouse.

Gift tax on anything over 18k a year to each individual.

Only after lifetime gifts exceed $13.61 million, under current law.