Get Better Mule Deer Hunting

[Travis Hobbs]

@Travis Hobbs I have heard that there is a planned clarification at the next board meeting in January regarding what’s allowed for ignition systems on muzzleloaders. You have more friends than me…you hear anything about this?

I have discussed it with many people in division and the technology Committee.

As I understand it, the division/committee is going to recommend to the board to basically adopt or allow NW muzzleloaders, allowing inlines so long as they are percussion caps, no 209’s etc.

I’m not exactly sure how the wording got changed.

I truly do not really care which way they go, I just want it to be clear and easy to understand and follow the law.

I hate the wording completely exposed as I think you could argue CVA’s design as completely visible or exposed.

I also think it will be much easier for hunters to buy a Northwest muzzy or a conversion kit for $30-50 bucks…… much easier than telling everyone they have to buy a new musket that really aren’t that cheap or easy to find in comparison to many of the NW muzzy options……. And I really don’t think you’re gaining a lot with a NW muzzy over other cap ignition systems.

 

[CorbLand]

I have discussed it with many people in division and the technology Committee.

As I understand it, the division/committee is going to recommend to the board to basically adopt or allow NW muzzleloaders, allowing inlines so long as they are percussion caps, no 209’s etc.

I’m not exactly sure how the wording got changed.

I truly do not really care which way they go, I just want it to be clear and easy to understand and follow the law.

I hate the wording completely exposed as I think you could argue CVA’s design as completely visible or exposed.

I also think it will be much easier for hunters to buy a Northwest muzzy or a conversion kit for $30-50 bucks…… much easier than telling everyone they have to buy a new musket that really aren’t that cheap or easy to find in comparison to many of the NW muzzy options……. And I really don’t think you’re gaining a lot with a NW muzzy over other cap ignition systems.

Good to know and have confirmed.

I agree that allowing the NW conversions would get the intended results and make it financially cheaper for people. I am not opposed to spending the money to get a new muzzleloader but I dont want to do it and in 3-5 years go back to being able to use my inline again.

But I am also not a guy that thinks there is value in owning a bunch of unused guns.

 

[robby denning]

Good to know and have confirmed.

I agree that allowing the NW conversions would get the intended results and make it financially cheaper for people. I am not opposed to spending the money to get a new muzzleloader but I dont want to do it and in 3-5 years go back to being able to use my inline again.

But I am also not a guy that thinks there is value in owning a bunch of unused guns.

ya if these states want people to accept shorter range weapons, they gotta quit moving the coconut shells around. An open or peep site levels the playing field, beyond that requirement, sabots vs conicals, pellet vs powder, caps vs 209 don't hardly make a difference on range (in my experience).

but they can't keep pissing people off outlawing this and then that gun and then legal again lol

 

[Chad E]

ya if these states want people to accept shorter range weapons, they gotta quit moving the coconut shells around. An open or peep site levels the playing field, beyond that requirement, sabots vs conicals, pellet vs powder, caps vs 209 don't hardly make a difference on range (in my experience).

but they can't keep pissing people off outlawing this and then that gun and then legal again lol

I agree with you robbie on the sighting system being the largest piece of the puzzle. This even applies to 1x scopes etc.
That being said there's a functional difference between ignition systems like 209 and rifle primers and caps because the 209s and rifle primers allows for the use of high energy propellent.
Granted idaho has changed to allow jacketed bullets and washington has changed to allow 1x scopes so the comparison is really goofy now but if you go back to say 2023 a washington legal muzzy vs an idaho legal muzzy was fairly significant difference. Throw in a montana heritage season legal muzzy and the difference grows maybe not just in range but reliability.

I think the biggest win would be if we had better informed folks crafting the regulations. It seems half the muzzloader regulations recently have been created without a strong understanding of the technology and how it functions.
No matter what the reg someone has figured out how to maximize it but I think a focus on how the general public is using things would yield good results.

 

[realunlucky]

I agree with you robbie on the sighting system being the largest piece of the puzzle. This even applies to 1x scopes etc.
That being said there's a functional difference between ignition systems like 209 and rifle primers and caps because the 209s and rifle primers allows for the use of high energy propellent.
Granted idaho has changed to allow jacketed bullets and washington has changed to allow 1x scopes so the comparison is really goofy now but if you go back to say 2023 a washington legal muzzy vs an idaho legal muzzy was fairly significant difference. Throw in a montana heritage season legal muzzy and the difference grows maybe not just in range but reliability.

I think the biggest win would be if we had better informed folks crafting the regulations. It seems half the muzzloader regulations recently have been created without a strong understanding of the technology and how it functions.
No matter what the reg someone has figured out how to maximize it but I think a focus on how the general public is using things would yield good results.

They make percussion caps now that offer higher ignition pressures. Don't kid yourself for every limitation, a new technology comes along to push into the gray area and give out an advantage.

Leupold sold a pile of thier red dot scope that you can "dial" with this last rule change. Eventually, someone will release a true 1x scope that dials and muzzleloader ranges will again mimic rifles.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Chad E]

They make percussion caps now that offer higher ignition pressures. Don't kid yourself for every limitation, a new technology comes along to push into the gray area and give out an advantage.

Leupold sold a pile of thier red dot scope that you can "dial" with this last rule change. Eventually, someone will release a true 1x scope that dials and muzzleloader ranges will again mimic rifles.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

I totally agree that the envelope will get pushed but that doesn't mean there's no point to restrictions.
I haven't seen the caps your speaking of do they work with blackhorn?

 

[CorbLand]

ya if these states want people to accept shorter range weapons, they gotta quit moving the coconut shells around. An open or peep site levels the playing field, beyond that requirement, sabots vs conicals, pellet vs powder, caps vs 209 don't hardly make a difference on range (in my experience).

but they can't keep pissing people off outlawing this and then that gun and then legal again lol

Yea, this is the third change in 8 years on muzzleloaders in Utah.

 

[HighUintas]

but they can't keep pissing people off outlawing this and then that gun and then legal again lol

I think they probably can. People will continue to buy tags, regardless of what the state throws at them. Maybe not the same people, but someone will. But, they shouldn't! I agree