Get Better Montana Mule Deer Hunting with Rokslide members

[robby denning]

Hosted @S.Clancy clancy and @AHayes111 on today's episode.

They have worked hard to put together a group, Citizens for Sustainable Opportunity, to work with Montana hunters and FWP to improve buck hunting in Montana, and more.

Give it a listen here or where ever you listen to podcasts. Proud of these guys for stepping up to do what they can. They'll be on this thread if you have any questions not answered in the episode and they have some additional docs/data to share.

Get Better Montana Mule Deer Hunting - Rokslide

Robby hosts Sean Clancy & Art Hayes from Citizens for Sustainable Opportunity. These guys are common-sense Montana residents looking for ways to get better Montana mule deer hunting.

www.rokslide.com

 

[S.Clancy]

Appreciate the opportunity Robby! If anyone has questions/comments please reach out via PM or the links provided. Thanks!

 

[robby denning]

Appreciate the opportunity Robby! If anyone has questions/comments please reach out via PM or the links provided. Thanks!

 

[AHayes111]

Second S.Clancy, more than will to discuss Montana mule deer via PM.

Appreciate the opportunity Robby! If anyone has questions/comments please reach out via PM or the links provided. Thanks!

 

[wind gypsy]

Got an email from MTFWP today with a link asking folks to opine on what they should consider in their next season setting sessions. I basically just asked them to strongly consider adopting the proposals made by the MT-Citizens for Sustainable Opportunity group.

Thanks Art and Sean for the effort put into these proposals and discussions and Robby for getting them on the rokcast.

Not sure if this link will work for others, it doesn't for me any longer after I submitted my comments. Worth a try.

Online Survey Software: Closed Survey

links-2.govdelivery.com

Edit: Another survey i'd encourage people to respond to but I think this one is almost done:

Feedback: Statewide Mule Deer Management Plan | Montana FWP

FWP staff have hosted public workshops around the state to gather input before developing a new Statewide Mule Deer Management Plan.

fwp.mt.gov

 

[mistermystery]

Great episode Robby! I’ve been hunting mule deer in eastern Montana for over 15 years, and I’ve observed similar patterns of increasing hunter crowding, even though I typically avoid the later part of the season during the rut. The pressure has become more intense, and it’s clear that changes are needed to preserve the quality of our hunts.

I’m fully supportive of the proposed season structure that Sean and Art have presented. I’m glad there are folks out there willing to dive deep into the data and come up with potential solutions that might help turn the trend we’ve been seeing with regards to mule deer hunting quality in MT. Hats off to both of you for your efforts. Keep us updated on any progress you make.

 

[S.Clancy]

Great episode Robby! I’ve been hunting mule deer in eastern Montana for over 15 years, and I’ve observed similar patterns of increasing hunter crowding, even though I typically avoid the later part of the season during the rut. The pressure has become more intense, and it’s clear that changes are needed to preserve the quality of our hunts.

I’m fully supportive of the proposed season structure that Sean and Art have presented. I’m glad there are folks out there willing to dive deep into the data and come up with potential solutions that might help turn the trend we’ve been seeing with regards to mule deer hunting quality in MT. Hats off to both of you for your efforts. Keep us updated on any progress you make.

Thanks for the support! It would be very helpful if you could reach out to your regional commissioner and voice your support as we get closer to the official season setting.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I’m just impressed you got Art on a podcast.

 

[AHayes111]

I’m just impressed you got Art on a podcast.

I might even do another one with Robby on 50 years of looking for antlers this winter.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

I listened to this today. There is obviously a lot of emphasis on E MT, which I completely understand. Question I have is, are you proposing to make these changes statewide, even moving seasons in Western and NW MT (Region 1, 2, etc.)?

 

[AHayes111]

I listened to this today. There is obviously a lot of emphasis on E MT, which I completely understand. Question I have is, are you proposing to make these changes statewide, even moving seasons in Western and NW MT (Region 1, 2, etc.)?

I think it could be problematic to mix and match the state and keep OTC. While I am not that familiar with region one, I do think that with the difficultly of hunting there and the amount of public land, I don't see an issue with the current season there. What I would worry about is that if Region one was remain OTC rut while the rest of the state did not and combined that with the number of LE districts in the NW part of the state, we could see a large increase in hunters looking take advantage of the OTC rut districts. Those region one mule deer herds are fragile, an unregulated increase in pressure could get ugly.
We in the eastern part of the state have long understood that management decisions in the west can ripple over to the east. It is highly likely that the opposite is true.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

I understand the theory of shifting pressure to the remaining general units. That is exactly what I was playing out in my mind when you guys were talking. I appreciate your effort of trying to keep as many units general as possible. MTFWP has always pushed the easy button and gone to permits… whether it works or not. Remember the unlimited SW MT permits that were put in place in the late 90s??

I went to a meeting prior to the formation of the advisory committee. I am obviously W & NW centric, but here are some of my comments from that meeting…
90% of our mule deer are shot opportunistically off the road. Make hunters choose species, that alone would eliminate 90% of mule deer hunters.

Pressure is not a factor in the NW. We have bucks dying of old age.

Increase the cat quota, increase to 1 spring and 1 fall bear tag and have $5 WT doe tags despite residency.

Unlike elk, private land is almost a complete non-factor for mule deer in NW MT.

Switching to 270 specifically, it should almost be a full on bounty on WT. Heck, sell a second WT buck tag for that unit. Deal with the poaching problem.

Unilateral statewide management will always fail one side of the state, or the other. Libby and Sako are literally 2 different worlds and need to be managed accordingly. 2/3s of our state could be managed for quality, sought after hunts. The other 1/3 of the state sucks to hunt and most people simply don’t enjoy it. Why do MTFWP always want permits in the shitty 1/3, then they’ve over hunted and refuse to manage the productive 2/3s? Their emphasis on “managing” has been completely opposite of where they should be focusing.

Why can you stand on 1 ridge, but be in 5 different units depending on whether you’re hunting sheep, goat, bear, moose or deer/elk. That is stupid, we should have hunting unit boundaries that don’t change by species.

Mandatory reporting, no orange, and do away with the muzzle loader free for all. AND… pass a bill eliminating the ability for politicians to pass bills about wildlife management!!! NO European model for game management. I appreciate you guys spending time trying to come up with constructive options and strategies.

 

[S.Clancy]

I understand the theory of shifting pressure to the remaining general units. That is exactly what I was playing out in my mind when you guys were talking. I appreciate your effort of trying to keep as many units general as possible. MTFWP has always pushed the easy button and gone to permits… whether it works or not. Remember the unlimited SW MT permits that were put in place in the late 90s??

I went to a meeting prior to the formation of the advisory committee. I am obviously W & NW centric, but here are some of my comments from that meeting…
90% of our mule deer are shot opportunistically off the road. Make hunters choose species, that alone would eliminate 90% of mule deer hunters.

Pressure is not a factor in the NW. We have bucks dying of old age.

Increase the cat quota, increase to 1 spring and 1 fall bear tag and have $5 WT doe tags despite residency.

Unlike elk, private land is almost a complete non-factor for mule deer in NW MT.

Switching to 270 specifically, it should almost be a full on bounty on WT. Heck, sell a second WT buck tag for that unit. Deal with the poaching problem.

Unilateral statewide management will always fail one side of the state, or the other. Libby and Sako are literally 2 different worlds and need to be managed accordingly. 2/3s of our state could be managed for quality, sought after hunts. The other 1/3 of the state sucks to hunt and most people simply don’t enjoy it. Why do MTFWP always want permits in the shitty 1/3, then they’ve over hunted and refuse to manage the productive 2/3s? Their emphasis on “managing” has been completely opposite of where they should be focusing.

Why can you stand on 1 ridge, but be in 5 different units depending on whether you’re hunting sheep, goat, bear, moose or deer/elk. That is stupid, we should have hunting unit boundaries that don’t change by species.

Mandatory reporting, no orange, and do away with the muzzle loader free for all. AND… pass a bill eliminating the ability for politicians to pass bills about wildlife management!!! NO European model for game management. I appreciate you guys spending time trying to come up with constructive options and strategies.

I think you hit an important point and one we struggled with alot. There is no one-size fits all strategy for a state as large and diverse as Montana.

Our strategy was to create a baseline that could then (hopefully) be adjusted through further commission work to address each Regions specific needs. So, for instance, if districts in Western MT are struggling to harvest deer with an earlier season, I think it is absolutely fine for those hunters to work with their commissioner to remedy that. We NEED that baseline to be October for other parts of the state, at least in our opinion. The current November baseline doesn't work.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

I think you hit an important point and one we struggled with alot. There is no one-size fits all strategy for a state as large and diverse as Montana.

Our strategy was to create a baseline that could then (hopefully) be adjusted through further commission work to address each Regions specific needs. So, for instance, if districts in Western MT are struggling to harvest deer with an earlier season, I think it is absolutely fine for those hunters to work with their commissioner to remedy that. We NEED that baseline to be October for other parts of the state, at least in our opinion. The current November baseline doesn't work.

Yeah, you spoke to that well. That is the difference in the N American Model vs our politicians drafting up stupid bill after stupid bill. That only continues the pendulum swings from 1 extreme to the other. What you’re trying isn’t perfect, but it moves things iteratively in a good direction. I personally wouldn’t want that season in the W and I don’t think it’s necessary, but it is a strategy worth considering in the other 2/3s for sure.

MTFWP defending their algorithm to get “harvest statistics” and adamantly opposing mandatory reporting kills me.

 

[wind gypsy]

Why can you stand on 1 ridge, but be in 5 different units depending on whether you’re hunting sheep, goat, bear, moose or deer/elk. That is stupid, we should have hunting unit boundaries that don’t change by species.

To me it makes sense to have different unit boundaries if the different species use the landscape differently or their management goals align better with different unit boundaries. Otherwise i agree that it could overcomplicate things.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

To me it makes sense to have different unit boundaries if the different species use the landscape differently or their management goals align better with different unit boundaries. Otherwise i agree that it could overcomplicate things.

Yeah. I got going on a rant. It’s always been annoying. But in the grand scheme of things, it is far from a deal breaker. But hey, I preferred Sunday opening days too!!

 

[AHayes111]

But hey, I preferred Sunday opening days too!!

tell us you are old without saying your age. I am with you on that one too.

 

[ThunderJack49]

I understand the theory of shifting pressure to the remaining general units. That is exactly what I was playing out in my mind when you guys were talking. I appreciate your effort of trying to keep as many units general as possible. MTFWP has always pushed the easy button and gone to permits… whether it works or not. Remember the unlimited SW MT permits that were put in place in the late 90s??

I went to a meeting prior to the formation of the advisory committee. I am obviously W & NW centric, but here are some of my comments from that meeting…
90% of our mule deer are shot opportunistically off the road. Make hunters choose species, that alone would eliminate 90% of mule deer hunters.

Pressure is not a factor in the NW. We have bucks dying of old age.

Increase the cat quota, increase to 1 spring and 1 fall bear tag and have $5 WT doe tags despite residency.

Unlike elk, private land is almost a complete non-factor for mule deer in NW MT.

Switching to 270 specifically, it should almost be a full on bounty on WT. Heck, sell a second WT buck tag for that unit. Deal with the poaching problem.

Unilateral statewide management will always fail one side of the state, or the other. Libby and Sako are literally 2 different worlds and need to be managed accordingly. 2/3s of our state could be managed for quality, sought after hunts. The other 1/3 of the state sucks to hunt and most people simply don’t enjoy it. Why do MTFWP always want permits in the shitty 1/3, then they’ve over hunted and refuse to manage the productive 2/3s? Their emphasis on “managing” has been completely opposite of where they should be focusing.

Why can you stand on 1 ridge, but be in 5 different units depending on whether you’re hunting sheep, goat, bear, moose or deer/elk. That is stupid, we should have hunting unit boundaries that don’t change by species.

Mandatory reporting, no orange, and do away with the muzzle loader free for all. AND… pass a bill eliminating the ability for politicians to pass bills about wildlife management!!! NO European model for game management. I appreciate you guys spending time trying to come up with constructive options and strategies.

I'm really not a mule deer guy but mandatory reporting, no orange and do away with muzzle loader has my vote.

 

[ianpadron]

We need mandatory reporting and E. vs. W. Montana should be managed with completely different approaches.

Deer are doing fine in Region 1 and the only NR I've seen in 5 years was myself in 2021 lol.

 

[ianpadron]

I understand the theory of shifting pressure to the remaining general units. That is exactly what I was playing out in my mind when you guys were talking. I appreciate your effort of trying to keep as many units general as possible. MTFWP has always pushed the easy button and gone to permits… whether it works or not. Remember the unlimited SW MT permits that were put in place in the late 90s??

I went to a meeting prior to the formation of the advisory committee. I am obviously W & NW centric, but here are some of my comments from that meeting…
90% of our mule deer are shot opportunistically off the road. Make hunters choose species, that alone would eliminate 90% of mule deer hunters.

Pressure is not a factor in the NW. We have bucks dying of old age.

Increase the cat quota, increase to 1 spring and 1 fall bear tag and have $5 WT doe tags despite residency.

Unlike elk, private land is almost a complete non-factor for mule deer in NW MT.

Switching to 270 specifically, it should almost be a full on bounty on WT. Heck, sell a second WT buck tag for that unit. Deal with the poaching problem.

Unilateral statewide management will always fail one side of the state, or the other. Libby and Sako are literally 2 different worlds and need to be managed accordingly. 2/3s of our state could be managed for quality, sought after hunts. The other 1/3 of the state sucks to hunt and most people simply don’t enjoy it. Why do MTFWP always want permits in the shitty 1/3, then they’ve over hunted and refuse to manage the productive 2/3s? Their emphasis on “managing” has been completely opposite of where they should be focusing.

Why can you stand on 1 ridge, but be in 5 different units depending on whether you’re hunting sheep, goat, bear, moose or deer/elk. That is stupid, we should have hunting unit boundaries that don’t change by species.

Mandatory reporting, no orange, and do away with the muzzle loader free for all. AND… pass a bill eliminating the ability for politicians to pass bills about wildlife management!!! NO European model for game management. I appreciate you guys spending time trying to come up with constructive options and strategies.

Agreed across the board my friend!