Gear questions and shaving an ounce here and there

Couple more thoughts, you mentioned pulleys, paper towels, duct tape. I don’t bring any of that stuff, you don’t need pulleys for elk, bear or any other animals when packing in.
I have two daughters and a son (all grown now) that hunted with me since they were very young and still do. I made sure to pack enough warm clothes for them that they did not get cold/uncomfortable. That was key while they were young. You mentioned bringing one gun, I did that as well when my kids were with me. Even today, when my youngest daughter (18 now) goes I only bring her gun. I have so much fun spotting for them and talking them through the shot.

One piece of great advice I have heard over the years is to not pack your fears. Over the years I have cut so much out that I used to pack. And with that, I haven’t ever been in dire need of anything.
I bought the smallest roll of duct tape I could find. I might skip the pulleys - I can see the chances of needing them are miniscule - and I agree that being comfortable is key. That's why we're bringing rainsuits. But TBH, if I see definite significant rain in the forecast we are likely to be at the car or sleeping in a cabin. I hate hunting in the rain, even here at home. My daughter certainly isn't a fan of it. I hear you on the one-gun thing. Having kids has made me rethink a lot of things.

If we could have drawn a quality deer tag (by quality, I mean almost any unit with decent odds at a 3 year old buck and fairly low hunting pressure) I think that would have been overall a much better first-western-hunt option, but here we are. Most of the logistic problems with elk happen after the shot, anyway.

ETA: as for dyneema cord vs paracord, the biggest advantage of paracord is that a roll of it is already at my house, paid for. Shaving that ounce of weight isn't worth it to me this year. We are spending a TON of money getting geared up and I can't justify every expense. Most of our stuff is entry level and I'm OK living with the extra weight involved in cheaper gear, for now. We can adjust and upgrade as time goes on.

A buddy of mine just got back from a similar hunt with his (older) son during bow season. I think his pack was close to 70 pounds but they packed a lot of stuff they didn't need - camp comfort stuff. He's stronger than me and probably handled 70 as well as I'll handle 40, but, still, hearing his reports has made me look hard at everything where I can afford to shave it. I don't particularly mind the idea of hiking in once with a lot of gear then figuring out how to get it back to the car with a dead elk. My real fear is hiking in, seeing a need to regroup and move, and *THEN* letting the dread of the weight stop me from making a needed move. That's what scares me.
 
Also - where do you guys stuff your reading glasses while wearing a pack? I always hang them on my shirt collar but the front/top pack cross-strap makes that risky. I need them to be always available but don't want to smush them with the pack strap.
 
Also - where do you guys stuff your reading glasses while wearing a pack? I always hang them on my shirt collar but the front/top pack cross-strap makes that risky. I need them to be always available but don't want to smush them with the pack strap.
I am going to sew a little pouch that will clip on my pack strap so I can take it off and put it in my pockets. Super annoying getting old and fat…

I finally got contacts for far vision and binoculars. Makes readers necessary.
 
There is no way I would not bring the rain fly to your tent period…. Unless I had some form of good rain protection.
We have had torrential rains here at home in the last 24 hours and yesterday I had to go outside and do some stuff in the rain and it kinda drove the point home. Being wet sucks.
 
I am going to sew a little pouch that will clip on my pack strap so I can take it off and put it in my pockets. Super annoying getting old and fat…

I finally got contacts for far vision and binoculars. Makes readers necessary.
I think some of my readers came in pouches. I might see what I can rig up there. I'll bring an extra pair, even hiking/camping. I can't read a map without them and certainly can't look at aerial imagery without them.
 
I think some of my readers came in pouches. I might see what I can rig up there. I'll bring an extra pair, even hiking/camping. I can't read a map without them and certainly can't look at aerial imagery without them.
I keep these readers in the side pouch of my bino harness. I've sat on them, washed them in the washing machine and haven't broken them. They weigh less than an ounce.
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Also - where do you guys stuff your reading glasses while wearing a pack? I always hang them on my shirt collar but the front/top pack cross-strap makes that risky. I need them to be always available but don't want to smush them with the pack strap.
Thank me after your trip.

 
Thank me after your trip.

Those are super neat. I bet I could still lose them though.

The daughter and I did a full test run with our packs this afternoon here in the yard, started with empty packs and walked through all our what-ifs and where to pack things. We answered questions like who totes the food, how to strap the rifle to my pack, and so on.

My sleep pad weights 0.75# less than hers. I may swap hers. My sleeping bag weights 5.5#. I may exchange it for something lighter. I don't honestly want to trim our food.

Counting water (4# each when we leave the car), right now I'm at a 41 pound pack. She's at 22. That ignores extra underwear/socks and other wearables and ignores our chest packs full of everyday stuff and emergency stuff. I trimmed where I could, I decided my rainsuit and snow gaiters didn't need factory packaging and there was no use carrying our kill bag in its own bag when I could just wrap it all up in one of the meat bags and cinch it with the drawstring - it'll be in the pack until needed anyway.

I can't make my stove any lighter. I already swapped in the smallest gas bottle I could find.

I could get rid of my fixed blade deboning knife and lose the better part of a pound but I reaaaallllllyyyyyyy hate to do that as I've grown to like that knife in the last 25 years. At this rate I may decide to keep it.

On a positive note, after thinking through how to pack them, neither pack is 'full' and has room to expand as needed for, say, meat hauling.
 
Colorado is eerily quiet at night.
Man, middle TN is NOT.

We slept out last night in the yard to start some gear testing. If stuff's gonna not work I want to know before we're miles from the car.

Our farm animals paid us no attention last night but the neighbors about a mile away have some cows that mooed throughout the night. Also, we live about a mile off the highway, and every so often a car went by. Plus the usual coyotes, not close, but loud enough to wake me. So 'eerily quiet' would have been nice.

Our sleeping pads worked fine. I've ordered a lighter pad to replace my heavier one I mentioned in an earlier post, but now that I know it works and is comfy, I may just keep it. I'll have to try the other one now I guess.

Sleeping bags are comfy, though 55 degrees is no test of their warmth. I had to sleep unzipped due to heat, which I suppose is a good sign.

It rained here over the weekend. The dew this morning immediately made me appreciate the value of a rain fly before I was even out of the tent. Skipping it would have been dumb. Thanks, y'all. But the tent is plenty big enough for the two of us to sleep comfortably and still have room for at least part of our gear. Also, I'm convinced now that I need two pieces of tyvek - one to make a porch under and in front of and behind the tent, and one, if the campsite allows for it with some trees around, to make sort of a cover to help keep the dew off our gear. The tent is double-fly and double-vestibule so both of us can have a spot to get dressed.

We had an almost full moon most of the night. Made sleep difficult, so this morning I checked the October CO moon rise/set times and it looks like we'll have much darker nights for sleeping. That's good.

One excess I think I'm going to tolerate, is to bring an actual pillow, not an inflatable. I don't want to trust an inflatable pillow. I'm not thrilled about trusting an inflatable mattress, honestly, but see it as a necessary risk and a safe one after I've tested the pads a few nights. The pillows.....no. I might get some sleep on hard ground but there's no way I'll sleep without proper head support so I'm picking up some camp pillows.

ETA: And of course the other kids wanted to 'camp out' with us, so we ended up with a full campsite and roasted marshmallows for the kids and all of that stuff. Not a bad way to spend a night at all.

Also - I may be crazy but I think I'm going to get a very small, very lightweight second pack for day hunting. It'll hold water for both of us, a kill kit, and a bit of food. I just don't think I want to lug the bulk of our regular packs around all day.

And last but not least.....I am in far better shape than I used to be but it has really hit me the last few weeks that my single biggest weakness right now is that I need to lose more body fat. I'm overweight, not obese, but it's really hitting me that the easiest way to trim pack weight would be to forget what the pack weighs and just carry it on a lighter body.
 
Man, middle TN is NOT.

We slept out last night in the yard to start some gear testing. If stuff's gonna not work I want to know before we're miles from the car.

Our farm animals paid us no attention last night but the neighbors about a mile away have some cows that mooed throughout the night. Also, we live about a mile off the highway, and every so often a car went by. Plus the usual coyotes, not close, but loud enough to wake me. So 'eerily quiet' would have been nice.

Our sleeping pads worked fine. I've ordered a lighter pad to replace my heavier one I mentioned in an earlier post, but now that I know it works and is comfy, I may just keep it. I'll have to try the other one now I guess.

Sleeping bags are comfy, though 55 degrees is no test of their warmth. I had to sleep unzipped due to heat, which I suppose is a good sign.

It rained here over the weekend. The dew this morning immediately made me appreciate the value of a rain fly before I was even out of the tent. Skipping it would have been dumb. Thanks, y'all. But the tent is plenty big enough for the two of us to sleep comfortably and still have room for at least part of our gear. Also, I'm convinced now that I need two pieces of tyvek - one to make a porch under and in front of and behind the tent, and one, if the campsite allows for it with some trees around, to make sort of a cover to help keep the dew off our gear. The tent is double-fly and double-vestibule so both of us can have a spot to get dressed.

We had an almost full moon most of the night. Made sleep difficult, so this morning I checked the October CO moon rise/set times and it looks like we'll have much darker nights for sleeping. That's good.

One excess I think I'm going to tolerate, is to bring an actual pillow, not an inflatable. I don't want to trust an inflatable pillow. I'm not thrilled about trusting an inflatable mattress, honestly, but see it as a necessary risk and a safe one after I've tested the pads a few nights. The pillows.....no. I might get some sleep on hard ground but there's no way I'll sleep without proper head support so I'm picking up some camp pillows.

ETA: And of course the other kids wanted to 'camp out' with us, so we ended up with a full campsite and roasted marshmallows for the kids and all of that stuff. Not a bad way to spend a night at all.

Also - I may be crazy but I think I'm going to get a very small, very lightweight second pack for day hunting. It'll hold water for both of us, a kill kit, and a bit of food. I just don't think I want to lug the bulk of our regular packs around all day.

And last but not least.....I am in far better shape than I used to be but it has really hit me the last few weeks that my single biggest weakness right now is that I need to lose more body fat. I'm overweight, not obese, but it's really hitting me that the easiest way to trim pack weight would be to forget what the pack weighs and just carry it on a lighter body.

What part of Middle TN you in? I lived in Murfreesboro and East Nashville for a 9 year stretch: 1999-2008
 
What part of Middle TN you in? I lived in Murfreesboro and East Nashville for a 9 year stretch: 1999-2008
We're between Columbia and Lewisburg, off 431. I have several friends scattered around M'boro. We moved here before the current rush started. Man, it's getting crowded.

Also - our tent came with about a dozen little stakes. I used six last night, one on each corner plus one on each vestibule apex(?). If I stake both sides of the vestibule I can't open it. So, I'll cut those extra stakes, bring 7 total. Weight saved.

My daughter slept on the lighter sleep pad. She gave it a good report, so I'm going ahead with ordering the second one. Those two cuts are maybe a pound. Now I have to add back pillows, and I am considering bringing a light blanket so we have a backup plan to stay warm if it gets cold. I can pack that in the car and leave it in the car depending on the forecast.

I'm thinking about possibly toting *part of* camp on our scouting days. Not the first day, but perhaps by day 2-3-4 of scouting I'll begin to have an idea of where we want to hunt, and if it's worth perhaps bringing some gear on a scout trip and dropping it off once I've confirmed that's where we want to camp. That depends on a lot of factors, of course, but I'm trying to think ahead on my options there.

I'm also starting to split stuff up into backpack things and a separate 'car stuff' list. Extra food and backup camp basics to allow us to sleep at the car if we get into a meat-packing scenario that puts us at the car with camp still up on the mountain. Extra frozen water in the cooler.

Also - I threw an empty spray bottle with a couple ounces of citric acid powder in it, in the kill bag. If the weather is forecasted to be cold I might remove that. If warm, it probably should stay. If we need it we can just dump a quart of drinking water in it.
 
My youngest wanted to keep camp up and sleep in the tent again last night. Of course he wanted me to go too.

I took the opportunity to sleep on that other sleeping pad. I honestly slept great - or as well as a guy can with intermittent noises - and was comfortable as could be.

That sleeping pad is a GearDoctors Ether. About $30 on Amazon and about 1.2 pounds. Looks like we'll be bringing two of those.
 
After our hike this morning I went back through some gear. I figure it's an exercise best done right after a hike on a hot day.

My 'old faithful' hunting knife is heavy enough to be used as a crowbar. Per my scale it weighs 0.48#.

A Mora Companion weighs 0.13#. I like leaving the old knife at home about as much as cowboys liked shooting their horses with broke legs, but I think it's best. :( That's a six ounce savings.

I think I'm going to take the dyneema cord suggestion after all. That's a few more ounces.

I'm still going to take a 'real' pillow for each of us to put our heads on but I'm also going to bring an inflatable for a knee pillow and one inflatable for a backup. I tested the cheap little Outdoor Vitals pillows - I learned that there's such a thing as thinking you have snapped the cap shut but it not being shut, and they'll deflate that way, but if you fully seat the cap after inflating, I have a stack of them that have held up for days now. Still fully inflated. I'm pulling extra tent stakes out of the tent bag. Seven should be one more than needed. I removed an extra game bag. If we kill an elk big enough to need it, it'll be in the car when we bring in the first load of meat. Also removing the superfluous extra bags they included for each tent subassembly. I think one bag is plenty. As it is the tent has to go inside my pack anyway because my sleeping bag is larger than the tent, so I'm tying the sleeping bag to the bottom of my pack.

FWIW, my 0 degree sleeping bag weighs 5.5# and I think that's likely the first thing I'll upgrade in the future. It's comfy, no doubt, but I think this is one area where it might be worth it to save a pound or more of weight by buying a lighter fancier bag. I can also see some easy places to save weight on her rifle, but that'll be a project for next year too.

My daughter is learning to shoot off of her pack but she isn't 100% there yet and won't likely be this fall, so instead of hauling a big heavy pack on hunting days, I grabbed a very small lightweight backpack from amazon that will hold 2 one-liter smartwater bottles, the kill bag, our sleeping bag liner (aka emergency blanket for cool mornings glassing), and a day's worth of food. With all the downed timber in the unit we are going to, I am hoping there'll be an improvised field rest literally everywhere - sit behind dead tree, put small bag on tree, rifle on bag, shoot. We'll have trek poles. and she is also learning how to use those as a rest and despite the weight penalty she'll have a 9-13" Harris S bipod. I expect *some* places we hunt/glass to be conducive to the use of a bipod from prone, but not all. She also knows how to use the legs as a front rest against a tree trunk to avoid touching the barrel against the tree. My mentality is that everything around you is a potential rest and she's learning that slowly and depending on how this goes we may be able to skip the Harris on future hunts. Also, if we're together (which we should be 99% of the time) I can help her build a shooting position much faster/better than she's ready to do on her own yet, and me being there means she has 2 sets of trek poles - three for a front rest and one to stabilize the rear of her body, if needed, makes for a fairly decent setup.

I have another question:

I planned to use a chest pack for my binos. They'll fit in my existing chest pack. But I'm afraid that if I stick them inside a zippered pocket I will tend towards stopping for a moment when I *could* glass a spot or two, but not doing it, because I have to unzip the pack to grab them. Glance with my eyes, miss spotting an elk, then walk on past them. Same concept as having a water bottle completely stored - if I can't reach it with one hand I'll start to dehydrate before I stop and fish it out. Yeah, that's dumb on my part. But it's the sort of thing I recognize my own tendency to do. Would I be better off leaving room in the chest pack where I *can* put the binos in them if we need to crawl or whatever else puts me needing them out of the way, but just leave them strapped on my neck otherwise, so it'll be easy to grab them and be glassing as often as possible? I have a very comfortable padded strap and they've never been a problem on multi-mile days.

Also - as I understand CO laws and USFS rules, am I correct that I can carry my daughter's rifle for her? She's hunting; I am not. I will not have a tag. As I understand it I'd still be legal to carry her rifle as it falls under the general heading of target practicing on public lands or other approved purposes for which the carry of a rifle would be allowed. She's a conscientious and safe gun-handler but I would strongly prefer to carry it for her at least most of the time when hiking between spots. I'd rather her be free to use her bino and trek poles and let me bear the burden of the rifle's weight.

I have an ink pen so she can sign her tag, in the kill kit. Today I'm going to dig out her SG license, elk tag, and hunter's safety card, and put them somewhere safe so we will be certain to pack them. I'm thinking they all go in a sandwich baggie stuffed in her chest/bino pouch. My wallet will go in my chest pouch.

We have scheduled one more campout for sure before our trip, and if weather allows (meaning we have nights below 40 degrees, which doesn't always happen here) we'll camp out on the coldest night we can, to determine whether we *need* a spare blanket, etc.
 
An extra pound will not kill you… But being cold, wet or hungry will take you out of the game. Don’t count ounces. Be comfortable and hunt hard. Packing 40lbs versus 44 lbs shouldn’t make a big difference, if it does then packing a deer/elk a few miles is going to be a big reality check hahaha.
 
An extra pound will not kill you… But being cold, wet or hungry will take you out of the game. Don’t count ounces. Be comfortable and hunt hard. Packing 40lbs versus 44 lbs shouldn’t make a big difference, if it does then packing a deer/elk a few miles is going to be a big reality check hahaha.
Packing an elk will be rough no matter what, I'm sure. At least if we do that we'll have a huge shot of adrenaline and we'll only be loaded going one direction per load.

I appreciate what you say about no real difference between 40 and 44. I've sort of resigned myself that getting under 40 pounds without some major gear expenses is going to be impossible, and I'm OK with that. Several times this summer I've been carrying ~40 then pick up my daughter's backpack so she could get a break from her pack without us ruining our hike time by sitting still waiting on her to rest. I've ended up with 60-70 pounds several times, off balance of course, with her pack over one shoulder.....yeah, at the end of the day I realize that this boils down to 'get comfortable being uncomfortable'. I'm just trying to hedge our bets by trimming everything we don't need.
 
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