Full Length vs Neck sizing

[tdhanses]

What do you guys do? I have been neck sizing for about 3 firings and then full length sizing. Today my gunsmith told me he believes it is better to full length size always and that neck sizing is harder on the brass.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Wrench]

Harder on the brass...no way. Harder to chamber, I'd buy that.

For a hunting rig, I'd aneal the brass and FL size. The consistency difference will be offset by the 100% reliable feeding and extracting.

 

[Cahunter805]

Partial FL bumping the shoulder .002-.003.

 

[huntnidaho]

I also bump .002 to .003, but with a body die, then size the neck separate with a Lee collet die. 2 operations, but I get consistently straighter ammo this way. I quit neck sizing only the first time I couldn't chamber a round. Not worth it to me, for any of my rifles.

 

[doverpack12]

I use Redding FL type S bushing die so I size the body, bump shoulder until no resistance is felt with firing pin and ejector removed, and size the neck with the appropriate size bushing to achieve the amount of neck tension I desire. The Redding competition shell holders are necessary in my opinion because there have been multiple rifles that had to have the stepped holders to achieve the necessary shoulder setback. With the standard and press caming over hard they still were not bumping enough. At that point the die/shell holder combo was the limiting factor. I need the 0.06 with one rifle, 0.04 with another and 0.08 with yet another all different calibers.

 

[rayporter]

neck sizing works fine but if you shoot warm or even medium loads you will eventually have hard to chamber ammo which will need full length sized.

by starting out with minimal full length sizing you can keep you ammo more consistent and it should last longer. this means setting up your dies to size just enough [ .002 or so as suggested] and no more. most of the manuals have you setting up dies to size .004 and more which will cause cases to stretch more than necessary which leads to premature failure [case separations]

personally I like to neck size the first time to make sure the case fits the chamber fully before I full length size.


In my match brass I will neck size at least twice before I start to full length size for the same reason. in match brass I will size just enough to get the bolt to close- this is probably less than .001 of shoulder bump. as the day goes on I will add a thou by the 6 th loading and then another thou to finish the day out. this is because of the hardening of the brass and less spring back after it is hit by high pressure many times. I check this several times a day to make sure the bolt is just barley touching the case. in a field rifle you do not want this.

all brass is going through this hardening and you have to be aware of it. so new brass will need less sizing than older brass to keep the exact same fit in the chamber but with a .002 to .003 shoulder bump you will never know it.

my press has a die adjuster on it to do the same things as the redding shell holders but the redding shell holders will only add length to a cartridge case they cannot take away length. many times to get the right fit you need less that what the original shell holder has. to achieve
fit in this case you may need to remove metal from the die or shell holder to get the case up in the die enough. I prefer to grind the shell holder but it does not matter. and yes it is possible to remove too much from the shell holder and have the rim strip off when trying to extract a case from the die. btdt

as an example if a case has measurement of say 1.501 from base to shoulder after firing and you want to set the shoulder back .002 to a measurement of 1.499 base to shoulder. if your factory shell holder is setting your brass back to 1.495 you are headed for case separations in the future. using a redding .002 shell holder will only make things worse by setting back the case to 1.493. the solution it to take .004 off if the die or shell holder to give your case a measurement of 1.499 or .002 set back.

 

[Sodbuster]

Wrench

Harder on the brass...no way. Harder to chamber, I'd buy that.

For a hunting rig, I'd aneal the brass and FL size. The consistency difference will be offset by the 100% reliable feeding and extracting.

This. i have multiple rifles in my favorite calibers and try to find loads that will work from rifle to rifle.
I am not a competition shooter.

 

[bradb]

Exactly as stated above!
By huntnidaho

 

[mfllood3800]

I'm new to reloading but after a lot of research I decided on FL Match grade dies with bushings to bump shoulder back .002". All my rifles are hunting application. I am pleased with the results and still am in the process of figuring all this out.
I was able to get my 300 RUM to right at .62 MOA consistently.
I am now working on my 300 WM and 30-06. I have loaded up some bullets but weather has been off. I am using the FL match grade with a bushing for these as well. Just seems the right way for me to do it.

 

[wind gypsy]

I use Redding FL type S bushing die so I size the body, bump shoulder until no resistance is felt with firing pin and ejector removed, and size the neck with the appropriate size bushing to achieve the amount of neck tension I desire. The Redding competition shell holders are necessary in my opinion because there have been multiple rifles that had to have the stepped holders to achieve the necessary shoulder setback. With the standard and press caming over hard they still were not bumping enough. At that point the die/shell holder combo was the limiting factor. I need the 0.06 with one rifle, 0.04 with another and 0.08 with yet another all different calibers.

I always thought the Redding shell holder kits were just a slightly easier step than adjusting the die down more. Out of the 12 or so sizing dies I’ve owned I’ve never had an issue getting all the sizing needed with a standard shell holder. Interesting that it is that prevalent.

 

[deadwolf]

I always thought the Redding shell holder kits were just a slightly easier step than adjusting the die down more. Out of the 12 or so sizing dies I’ve owned I’ve never had an issue getting all the sizing needed with a standard shell holder. Interesting that it is that prevalent.

I’ve had trouble with only one cartridge getting proper shoulder bump. And I’ve heard of guys getting in trouble by setting up their die with one shell holder, then using a different shell holder down the road!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doverpack12]

I always thought the Redding shell holder kits were just a slightly easier step than adjusting the die down more. Out of the 12 or so sizing dies I’ve owned I’ve never had an issue getting all the sizing needed with a standard shell holder. Interesting that it is that prevalent.

I could chamber with the standard shell holders and die but one particular rifle in 30-06 was not accurate at all until I finally checked a resized piece of brass without the firing pin and felt how tight it was in the chamber. I had already annealed the brass so started working through the stepped shell holders and when I hit 0.04 it chambered without resistance and the rifle finally tightened up the group. Factory ammo was the only ammo this rifle would shoot relatively accurate to that point.

I set up all my resizing dies to cam over hard on the shell holder which should be the minimum length that combo can size down to. I do this for alignment and consistency other wise you will have a variable gap between the bottom edge and shell holder and whatever variability there is in the brass will not be corrected through sizing. The redding shell holders allow you to go below this minimum combination.

Just curious wind gypsy do you check for resistance with a sized piece of brass in the chamber prior to loading? I never did and since I have been checking accuracy has improved and I am using more of the shell holder sizes than just the standard.

 

[wind gypsy]

I could chamber with the standard shell holders and die but one particular rifle in 30-06 was not accurate at all until I finally checked a resized piece of brass without the firing pin and felt how tight it was in the chamber. I had already annealed the brass so started working through the stepped shell holders and when I hit 0.04 it chambered without resistance and the rifle finally tightened up the group. Factory ammo was the only ammo this rifle would shoot relatively accurate to that point.

I set up all my resizing dies to cam over hard on the shell holder which should be the minimum length that combo can size down to. I do this for alignment and consistency other wise you will have a variable gap between the bottom edge and shell holder and whatever variability there is in the brass will not be corrected through sizing. The redding shell holders allow you to go below this minimum combination.

Just curious wind gypsy do you check for resistance with a sized piece of brass in the chamber prior to loading? I never did and since I have been checking accuracy has improved and I am using more of the shell holder sizes than just the standard.

My press (lee classic cast) does not cam over. After first firing I size (with FL or FL bushing dies) as little as possible. 2nd sizing there forward I just turn the die in enough to bump shoulder 0.001 to 0.002" or whatever minimum bump is needed to chamber the rounds without resistance. I have never removed a firing pin to do this, what does doing that change?

Some rifles seem to need a bigger bump than others, my short mags in particular. I try to make sure I push the press handle into the top of the stroke with consistent force. I'm not following why there would be a variable gap between shell holder and die body if I am always pushing into the press stop with enough force to fully size the brass. I do anneal at least every 3 firings.

 

[rayporter]

every shell holder brand is a different length. I have about every brand made and frequently sort through them to get a fit that i want.

to get the best feel of the bolt as it closes you should remove the firing pin as the spring will affect the feel of the bolt closing. some even go so far as to remove the ejector also so the ejector spring does not interfere with the feel.

in the average hunting rifle I doubt that it matters.

- - - Updated - - -

the redding shell holder set will not take a cartridge past mimimum, [ of make a shell go deeper into the die] it will only make a shell go less into the die. or in other words make the shell longer [ from base to shoulder] after sizing. this results in less headspace. if you have a snug case with a regular shell holder and move to a redding shell holder of, say, +.004, the bolt will not close.

if you have a very loose case that the bolt just drops on after removing the firing pin, then try the +.002 shell holder to see if you get some resistance. if no resistance, then try a .004 and so on, until you get some bolt resistance. always remember this ammo is rifle specific after doing this. measurements of base to shoulder should be taken and recorded.

from the redding site;
Create A “Custom Die” With A Simple Shellholder Change! - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

To provide desirable shellholder-to-die contact during sizing, without excessively setting the case shoulder back, Redding now offers shellholders that are in increments of .002" thicker than the industry standard. The nominal thickness for industry standard shellholders is .125". (See dimension X on the shellholder diagram.) Our new Competition Shellholder Set includes five shellholders that are thicker than this in increments of .002". Therefore, the set includes shellholders that are marked +.002, +.004, +.006, +.008 and +.010, which is the amount the shellholder will decrease case to chamber headspace.

 

[tdhanses]

Very interesting, never even thought about diff sized shell holders.

 

[Doghed]

Jeff Brozovich has a good video tutorial over on Long Range Only on his work flow of "bump sizing" with the competition shell holders.
How To Adjust and Set Head Space and Shoulder Bump - Long Range Only

 

[doverpack12]

every shell holder brand is a different length. I have about every brand made and frequently sort through them to get a fit that i want.

to get the best feel of the bolt as it closes you should remove the firing pin as the spring will affect the feel of the bolt closing. some even go so far as to remove the ejector also so the ejector spring does not interfere with the feel.

in the average hunting rifle I doubt that it matters.

- - - Updated - - -

the redding shell holder set will not take a cartridge past mimimum, [ of make a shell go deeper into the die] it will only make a shell go less into the die. or in other words make the shell longer [ from base to shoulder] after sizing. this results in less headspace. if you have a snug case with a regular shell holder and move to a redding shell holder of, say, +.004, the bolt will not close.

if you have a very loose case that the bolt just drops on after removing the firing pin, then try the +.002 shell holder to see if you get some resistance. if no resistance, then try a .004 and so on, until you get some bolt resistance. always remember this ammo is rifle specific after doing this. measurements of base to shoulder should be taken and recorded.

from the redding site;
Create A “Custom Die” With A Simple Shellholder Change! - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

To provide desirable shellholder-to-die contact during sizing, without excessively setting the case shoulder back, Redding now offers shellholders that are in increments of .002" thicker than the industry standard. The nominal thickness for industry standard shellholders is .125". (See dimension X on the shellholder diagram.) Our new Competition Shellholder Set includes five shellholders that are thicker than this in increments of .002". Therefore, the set includes shellholders that are marked +.002, +.004, +.006, +.008 and +.010, which is the amount the shellholder will decrease case to chamber headspace.

I don’t agree as the 0.01 holder does the least amount of sizing to the brass and each step 0.008, 0.006 etc sizes two thousands more. This means the brass goes further into the die. BROZ has a great video called “how to size a case and set headspace” showing this exact procedure and how the shell holders work. Go to YouTube and the long range only channel. This is one of the first videos he posted

 

[sguida]

As with others, I learned the hard way when my second neck sized round wouldn't chamber in my Ruger #1. Luckily, I killed the elk with the first shot, because I needed a Gerber to get the round out. Unseen corrosion had built up in the chamber over a few days of snow, and it was just enough to bind up that round 3/4 way in. Also a good learning point about running a patch through the gun daily in those conditions.

 

[rayporter]

well, go to the redding site.

all I can say is if you look at the drawing of the shell holders and how they are built with +.002 more length it is physically impossible for a case to go further into the die. that is from redding.

personally I have several shell holders I have ground material from to get cases further into the die.

watching video above [ which is pretty good] he does you a disservice by not measuring all the cases and telling you the base to shoulder measurement. if he had sized with a standard shell holder and given the measurement you would have understood what he was doing. the standard shell holder would have given him .006 headspace which would be a very sloppy fit and lead to case failure as well as poor accuracy.
this why I say you should measure and record the measurement.

so suppose he started with the .01 shell holder and got a measurement of 1.500 base to shoulder. and it was tight.
then with a .008 the case went further into the die as he said and the measurement was 1.498
next he used a .006 and went further into the die again and suppose the measurement was 1.496 and this was perfect.
now lets complete the set of shell holders and go to a .004,, and get a measurement of 1.494
and a .002 gives us a measurement of 1.492 this would be very loose with .006 headspace. remember he found .008 to be just snug in the chamber.
so go to a standard shell holder of .000 and measure 1.490 base to shoulder. now you have a lot of slop and over .006 headspace -definitely too much. this is how some factory ammo is loaded and if you continue to use this much much heads space cases wont last.

he starts with the longest shell holder and progresses smaller which takes the case further into the die, this is further from the maximum that the deepest shell holder can give you. the standard shell holder will go much deeper into the die than the .006 that he has found to work for his chamber. because of this it is confusing.

edit to add
I don't own a set of redding shell holders and have never seen them in use at any benchrest match of 100-200-300-or 600 yd.
we do all this adjusting with the die set up.

 

[Wrench]

You can remove material from the top of the shell holder to reduce the shoulder to case head length, but it comes with consequences. The case Web will be worked excessively and moving the shoulder can introduce the dreaded doughnut in some brass.