Full Curl or Not

[smg]

I’m hoping to hear from those who have experience in judging dall sheep with respect to full curl or not. I’ve found myself getting somewhat frustrated on trying to decipher “full curl”. I’ve read and re-read ADFG’s 2018 full-curl guide, listened to Clay Lancaster, sheep seminar part 2, etc.

I get doubled broomed, the stick test, and the tip going beyond the angle of the bases – these criteria seem relatively straight forward to me. I can appreciate the advice that “if it takes more than a couple minutes to determine if its full curl, then you need to find another one.” That advice works if you know exactly what you’re looking for.

Below is an excerpt from the field guide which has caused me the most pain. Initially looking at Sheep 1, I see a picture of a sub-legal ram on the side view and the from above view. And it’s not until the picture from below that its evident that the ram is legal. The guide suggest that the angle of view should be from the side slightly below. It seems like to me that I may have been going about the full circle test all wrong – start with getting a side profile of the ram and get an angle (most likely below) that the tip of the horn reaches the front portion of the base and if you can get a perfect full circle when the tip reaches the base or exceeds it, then you have a legal ram? Or in other words the side view below is slightly “egg-shaped” vertically and not until you are slightly below the ram can you achieve a perfect circle with the tip exceeding 360.

I would welcome and appreciate any visual illustrations that others may have on why a ram is legal or not.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

The ram on the left passes two of the criteria needed for full curl; horn tip on the right horn passes the "horn tip angle test" and from the side (profile) barely meets the full "geometric circle" test. It's obviously legal, because it meets at least two of the criteria.

 

[Snyd]

That pic doesn't show different "criteria" per-se, It's just showing you how the two rams horns look from different angles. One has to consider the angle you are viewing the sheep from when determining full curl. Don't over think it.

 

[smg]

That pic doesn't show different "criteria" per-se, It's just showing you how the two rams horns look from different angles. One has to consider the angle you are viewing the sheep from when determining full curl. Don't over think it.

Thanks - I agree that it's not showing different criteria but showing the importance of angle. And yes, I have been overthinking it!

 

[dallen]

Thanks - I agree that it's not showing different criteria but showing the importance of angle. And yes, I have been overthinking it!

If it’s a big mature ram….. your going to know it without too much thought (like an old 11-13 yo) it’s those 7-8 yo that are kind of tough. I generally look for that tip to flare to give me a general indication it’s worth investigating (if not broomed). Otherwise it’s sometimes a waiting game for the ram to give you a good angle. I swear some rams know that….. actually… sitting there scoping out that ram is a lot of the fun.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

If it’s a big mature ram….. your going to know it without too much thought (like an old 11-13 yo) it’s those 7-8 yo that are kind of tough. I generally look for that tip to flare to give me a general indication it’s worth investigating (if not broomed). Otherwise it’s sometimes a waiting game for the ram to give you a good angle. I swear some rams know that….. actually… sitting there scoping out that ram is a lot of the fun.

There's rams currently out there that are 9, 10, 11 and 12 years old that ARE NOT full curl, nor broomed. Just saying ......

 

[dallen]

There's rams currently out there that are 9, 10, 11 and 12 years old that ARE NOT full curl, nor broomed. Just saying ......

Yep, they are all different…..the last one my daughter shot was 9, and he’s one that would likely never have been full curl. It does take some staring sometimes…..

generally, those older rams have mass that youngsters won’t. I’ve seen some from a long ways off that did not have a lot of white between horns… and did not need to study those guys too much.

 

[smg]

So I actually got the opportunity last week to put some boots on the ground to where I'm planning to hunt this fall. I needed to work through some of the logistics in getting there, not to mention hoping to see a few animals. The following is the same sheep with ok picture quality. This sheep looks short of full curl to me - I'm curious to what others think. This ram seems to flare out but he looks less than full curl.

 

[dallen]

I can’t get all the pictures to load full size but would say your area has some 6 and 7 year olds running around. I’d give one a possible maybe….maybe…. ( but more no than yes in my mind). But that’s just me.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

I can’t get all the pictures to load .....

Same -- can't get photos to load ....

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Finally got photos to load. I don't see anything legal.

 

[wildwilderness]

looks young and short. High tight curl, not quite full. looks like lots of space between the rings as well

 

[WalterH]

Definitely not full curl. Nice mass for a young sheep. Looks like maybe 6y/o to me? He will be a stud in a few years.

 

[BBob]

Project that curl on up and he’s short. Likely behind the eye and behind front of base. Needs a couple or more years

 

[smg]

Project that curl on up and he’s short. Likely behind the eye and behind front of base. Needs a couple or more years

Thanks - this has been super helpful.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

This one will pass four of the legal criteria ......

 

[JRodAK]

How about this guy? Found in the Wrangells last year.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

North side of the Wrangell's?

 

[JRodAK]

North side of the Wrangell's?

Yes, we left him where we found him overlooking the valley below.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Yeah, looked like a ram from the north side, but sometimes you never know.