Frontal shot on whitetails

[Erussell01]

No, even with my pedestrian speed bows I would hit high but hopefully still center mass. That could just be me missing my intended target and not the deer movement. I also don't take long shots on deer because of their reaction and thick cover. 30 yards would be the limit but usually 18-25.

I think guys and gals who regularly hunt wired deer know which situations are likely to result in high speed evasive action. The prime suspect is the old nanny doe. To get her you better be ready to shoot as soon as she is in range because within seconds she will have the area surveyed for danger and place every deer on high alert, ready to fold in half to Bruce Lee herself away from an arrow. Kind of like the matriarch cow elk who exits a sketchy situation and the whole herd follows.

I firmly believe that old does and cows are smarter than any buck or bull out there. An 8 or 9 year old doe has seen everything and survived it all.

Do you find that deer react more at the middle ranges? For example, I hear guys say deer react more at 35 than they do at 50+. Having now only shot a few deer beyond 50 (3 to be exact) and all 3 stood there and just took the arrow, I'd buy into it. Seems like sub 20, they might not go far but straight down. 30 to 40 they could probably be in the next county but 50+ they might not react as much to the bow going off.

 

[Elkhntr08]

From ground level at 20 yards, I wouldn’t hesitate.
From 25’ up in a tree at 20 yards, no shot in my opinion.

 

[Forestphantom]

No. I’ll take a slightly quartering to shot but not full frontal. Margin for error is greater.

 

[Erussell01]

From ground level at 20 yards, I wouldn’t hesitate.
From 25’ up in a tree at 20 yards, no shot in my opinion.

How about 18?

Joking

But that's the shot i took. 18 feet up, 18 yards. Head up looking at a snowshoe hair behind me hoppin around

 

[Erussell01]

No. I’ll take a slightly quartering to shot but not full frontal. Margin for error is greater.

Do you fear hitting the point of the shoulder?


Or are you saying you'd shoot quartering to behind the shoulder?

 

[WhatToHunt]

I'm feeling similar to Elkhntr08, although I'd still likely hesitate at ground level unless it was closer. But that's just me and who knows until the moment of truth at ground level comes.

 

[Erussell01]

I'm feeling similar to Elkhntr08, although I'd still likely hesitate at ground level unless it was closer. But that's just me and who knows until the moment of truth at ground level comes.

My only issue with saying ground level us better, is if a deer is facing me at ground level I'd imagine I'm either made and it's on high alert, or I set up not knowing where they were coming from. I don't think I'd shoot at a highly alert deer looking at me on anything but the most confident of shot, depending on what the moment of truth gave me

 

[Forestphantom]

Do you fear hitting the point of the shoulder?


Or are you saying you'd shoot quartering to behind the shoulder?

Behind the shoulder. Last year buck gave me this opportunity and the entrance was just behind the shoulder and exit was back of rib cage on opposite side. Buck dropped in 25 yards. Not a hard quartering angle though.

 

[Erussell01]

Behind the shoulder. Last year buck gave me this opportunity and the entrance was just behind the shoulder and exit was back of rib cage on opposite side. Buck dropped in 25 yards. Not a hard quartering angle though.

Gotcha. I'll take that too all day, and if they turn a little more I actually like splitting the shoulder and the neck and aiming for my exit to be right behind the opposite shoulder. Shortest blood trail I've ever had was quartering to, arrow exited behind offside shoulder and she dropped in 7 yards with a horror movie level of blood to follow that started from the site of the shot

 

[ddowning]

When I was in the heyday of my youth I was a pretty good 3d tournament archer. I took my first deer at 52 yards. There was such a deer problem we often saw 40 does and fawns in a single evening sit. When you are young and cocky with that kind of target rich environment, it exposes you to a few things. I killed a ton of does from 6 yards to 64 yards. The string jumpers tend to be between 30 and 40 yards, more specifically 35-40. I spined a couple handfuls at that distance even with a 305 fps arrow. Closer than that it never seemed to be a problem. Further than that and they seemed to stand and take it. The one at 64 yards looked as if the arrow was going over its back and then it lunged back up and the arrow went through both lungs.

I would take every shot angle except straight away. I had some weird things happen. It convinced me to stop shooting past 50 yards except on follow ups on whitetails. At that time I could shoot a 3-4" group at 80 yards in practice. All the weird stuff happened past 50 yards. I had one quartering away shot at 57.5 yards that looked like a perfect shot. The deer went stiff legged and died instantly with all 4 feet in the air. It never took a step. I shot one at 41 or 42 yards on the point of the shoulder quartering to with a 2" expandable. I got a complete pass through and the deer looked like it went down as it crested the hill. When I went to retrieve it, I had to finish it. I was on the ground, but it was a slightly downhill shot. The first arrow got one lung, the diaphragm, the liver, and the intestines were protruding from the exit. However, that deer still managed to live a long time.

I was hunting from the ground and got busted drawing on a doe at around 30 yards. She was stomping and snorting. I held the bow waiting to see if she would turn. When I couldn't hold it anymore, I let it down and drew again and took the shot ff. She went 80 yards and died. I shot a doe this year on Thanksgiving that was bedded and frontal. She went 20 yards and piled up. I took a shot that was ff on a doe when I was younger. It was doing the head Bob. I thought it had stopped and sent it. It dropped its head and the arrow hit it right between the eyes and killed it instantly.

We had been chasing a huge typical for 3 years. He was in the 190s the 2 years before. I had not seen him the year my brother took the FF shot. We had blood for awhile and then nothing. We grid searched the mile section where the shot was taken and every section adjacent to it. It took us 4 days. We never found the deer dead, and to my knowledge, no one ever saw it alive again either.

The point is this. If you have the utmost confidence in being able to place an arrow exactly where you need to, you will typically have good results. You need to have a lot of energy and sharp broadheads to get good penetration on odd angles. Even at that, given enough chances, there will be weird failures and likely a few instances where the arrow misses the mark slightly. You can hit a lot of things or combinations of things that will eventually kill an animal with an arrow. What my experience has taught me is that having 2 big holes through both lungs is the fastest and most ethical way to get it done consistently. Making a big leak in the heart is a close second, but the target size and knowledge of anatomy required to do it from all angles is much more complex. I can not do it consistently.

I currently base my decision on the likelihood of a favorable outcome, but I prefer not to take marginal shots. Every time I think I can do something fancy I get a gut check. Last year I had a straight down shot. I was certain I could break the spine and get the lungs and maybe the heart in the process. After the first shot the deer stopped at 35 yards broadside and I made a good double lung shot. After examination, the blade that would have cut the spine was broken off before getting through the bone and I only got one lung. It would have been bad without the follow-up.

I'm not one to tell others what's possible and what they are capable of. As hunters we should be the best and most confident shooters possible. If you aren't good enough to win competitions and perform under pressure you should be striving to reach that level. There has been, for a long time, a sect of hunters that want to preach about ethics, especially with shot selection. In my experience, it is rare to find a guy or gal so calm and cool and exceptional at shooting that they never take a marginal shot opportunity because of misreading the situation or succumbing to some temptation. Most who preach are not even good enough to regularly capitalize on the chip shots. I have been fortunate to witness guys that can make the kill in the most challenging of circumstances. They will take shots I won't and will blow it less often. I will not pretend they have the same limitations as me. The other harsh reality is regardless or skill and discipline, there will be times when things go wrong. It is just reality.

It has been a long time since I have hit an animal and lost it, but there have been some rodeos with multiple shots for sure. I have had a couple recently where the deer dropped at the shot and I spined it and a couple where I got a bad range from hitting a branch or the ground behind with the laser. Those resulted in clean misses. While I don't condone shooting in marginal situations and wounding animals, I do think many would be surprised what they could do if they shot enough to actually test, and learn, their limitations on things that aren't living. I don not have a hard stop max range or only this or that shot presentation. If Im certain I can make the shot, I take it. If I question it, I pass.

The best killers shoot so much they know before they shoot that they WILL make the shot. The best hunters get themselves in situations where they will never miss except for a fluke. If more guys would shoot and hunt and stop basing their decisions on others abilities, there would be one less thing to argue about on the internet.

 

[T3ninja]

I’ve pulled off a handful of frontal shots with a rifle and a couple with a bow. I’ve never had a bad result from doing so. But I’m not a fan of doing it with deep penetrating rifle rounds, I hate getting into the guts.

 

[Erussell01]

When I was in the heyday of my youth I was a pretty good 3d tournament archer. I took my first deer at 52 yards. There was such a deer problem we often saw 40 does and fawns in a single evening sit. When you are young and cocky with that kind of target rich environment, it exposes you to a few things. I killed a ton of does from 6 yards to 64 yards. The string jumpers tend to be between 30 and 40 yards, more specifically 35-40. I spined a couple handfuls at that distance even with a 305 fps arrow. Closer than that it never seemed to be a problem. Further than that and they seemed to stand and take it. The one at 64 yards looked as if the arrow was going over its back and then it lunged back up and the arrow went through both lungs.

I would take every shot angle except straight away. I had some weird things happen. It convinced me to stop shooting past 50 yards except on follow ups on whitetails. At that time I could shoot a 3-4" group at 80 yards in practice. All the weird stuff happened past 50 yards. I had one quartering away shot at 57.5 yards that looked like a perfect shot. The deer went stiff legged and died instantly with all 4 feet in the air. It never took a step. I shot one at 41 or 42 yards on the point of the shoulder quartering to with a 2" expandable. I got a complete pass through and the deer looked like it went down as it crested the hill. When I went to retrieve it, I had to finish it. I was on the ground, but it was a slightly downhill shot. The first arrow got one lung, the diaphragm, the liver, and the intestines were protruding from the exit. However, that deer still managed to live a long time.

I was hunting from the ground and got busted drawing on a doe at around 30 yards. She was stomping and snorting. I held the bow waiting to see if she would turn. When I couldn't hold it anymore, I let it down and drew again and took the shot ff. She went 80 yards and died. I shot a doe this year on Thanksgiving that was bedded and frontal. She went 20 yards and piled up. I took a shot that was ff on a doe when I was younger. It was doing the head Bob. I thought it had stopped and sent it. It dropped its head and the arrow hit it right between the eyes and killed it instantly.

We had been chasing a huge typical for 3 years. He was in the 190s the 2 years before. I had not seen him the year my brother took the FF shot. We had blood for awhile and then nothing. We grid searched the mile section where the shot was taken and every section adjacent to it. It took us 4 days. We never found the deer dead, and to my knowledge, no one ever saw it alive again either.

The point is this. If you have the utmost confidence in being able to place an arrow exactly where you need to, you will typically have good results. You need to have a lot of energy and sharp broadheads to get good penetration on odd angles. Even at that, given enough chances, there will be weird failures and likely a few instances where the arrow misses the mark slightly. You can hit a lot of things or combinations of things that will eventually kill an animal with an arrow. What my experience has taught me is that having 2 big holes through both lungs is the fastest and most ethical way to get it done consistently. Making a big leak in the heart is a close second, but the target size and knowledge of anatomy required to do it from all angles is much more complex. I can not do it consistently.

I currently base my decision on the likelihood of a favorable outcome, but I prefer not to take marginal shots. Every time I think I can do something fancy I get a gut check. Last year I had a straight down shot. I was certain I could break the spine and get the lungs and maybe the heart in the process. After the first shot the deer stopped at 35 yards broadside and I made a good double lung shot. After examination, the blade that would have cut the spine was broken off before getting through the bone and I only got one lung. It would have been bad without the follow-up.

I'm not one to tell others what's possible and what they are capable of. As hunters we should be the best and most confident shooters possible. If you aren't good enough to win competitions and perform under pressure you should be striving to reach that level. There has been, for a long time, a sect of hunters that want to preach about ethics, especially with shot selection. In my experience, it is rare to find a guy or gal so calm and cool and exceptional at shooting that they never take a marginal shot opportunity because of misreading the situation or succumbing to some temptation. Most who preach are not even good enough to regularly capitalize on the chip shots. I have been fortunate to witness guys that can make the kill in the most challenging of circumstances. They will take shots I won't and will blow it less often. I will not pretend they have the same limitations as me. The other harsh reality is regardless or skill and discipline, there will be times when things go wrong. It is just reality.

It has been a long time since I have hit an animal and lost it, but there have been some rodeos with multiple shots for sure. I have had a couple recently where the deer dropped at the shot and I spined it and a couple where I got a bad range from hitting a branch or the ground behind with the laser. Those resulted in clean misses. While I don't condone shooting in marginal situations and wounding animals, I do think many would be surprised what they could do if they shot enough to actually test, and learn, their limitations on things that aren't living. I don not have a hard stop max range or only this or that shot presentation. If Im certain I can make the shot, I take it. If I question it, I pass.

The best killers shoot so much they know before they shoot that they WILL make the shot. The best hunters get themselves in situations where they will never miss except for a fluke. If more guys would shoot and hunt and stop basing their decisions on others abilities, there would be one less thing to argue about on the internet.

One thing I could not agree with more is taking shots you know you're going to make. When I draw back, its because I'm intending to kill the thing I'm drawing down on. I can absolutely back myself down if something feels off or I have doubt, and I have and will pass on ANY deer whether it be the biggest buck of my life or a small doe given the shot doesn't present itself.
That said, I get significantly more shot opportunities on game because I keep myself in the frame of mind that I'm looking to make the shot if and when an acceptable opportunity presents itself.

My brother, boy.... I have no idea how he has ever killed anything. He is so indecisive and bucks just love to come right to him. Guy could sit in the Walmart parking lot and a buck would walk straight to his feet. Lol.
He'd miss that buck anyway though so the buck has nothing to worry about.

 

[Erussell01]

I’ve pulled off a handful of frontal shots with a rifle and a couple with a bow. I’ve never had a bad result from doing so. But I’m not a fan of doing it with deep penetrating rifle rounds, I hate getting into the guts.

That is something I'd never considered. You really could end up with an arrow making all the way through the guts and out a rear quarter or thereabouts. Good point!