Fresh Mule Deer Rubs in Mid-October

[ORwaterfowler]

I have tried searching but have not found much on the subject of rubs and mule deer other than for shedding their velvet or Nov rutting. In the area I have hunted over the past 12 years (Fairly heavily timbered 4-7k ft Oregon) we find fresh deer rubs in early to mid October and have at times found a buck in the same drainage not all that far away. It's not something that I have paid all that much attention to in the past, but found a rub that was clearly very fresh and from a solid buck towards the end of last season around 6k on mountain mahogany on a ridge with good escape routes and cover / all the needs covered.

There are a lot of elk rubs in the general area too but not close to this and this one had hair still in the bark / was lower etc.

My question is can this kind of sign be used reliably that the buck is still using that area as a form of tracking, or am I reading too much into it and is more of a coincidence in finding the deer not too far from the rubs on occasion?

 

[Bubblehide]

I come across rubs and scrapes regularly, during appropriate times of the year. However, mule deer are not as prolific at rubs and scrapes. Typically as the stages of the rut progress, they become more obvious.

 

[AHayes111]

If I find a rub on a four inch or better diameter tree and tine marks five feet up it is time to slow down and get serious about hunting.

 

[ORwaterfowler]

If I find a rub on a four inch diameter tree or better and tine marks five feet up it is time to slow down and get serious about hunting.

Appreciate the reply, and that is exactly what I found. 2-5.5' high rubs on a 5" tree. Around Oct 10th

Sounds like my thought process isn't too far off.

 

[ORwaterfowler]

I come across rubs and scrapes regularly, during appropriate times of the year. However, mule deer are not as prolific at rubs and scrapes. Typically as the stages of the rut progress, they become more obvious.

That's been the struggle in finding information so far thats muley specific. We don't find a large number of rubs (which I have seen with blacktail) but find at least a few every year.

 

[Bubblehide]

It may have a bit to do with buck to doe ratio. There was a study done on whitetail years ago. One of their conclusions was the lower the buck to doe ratio, they found less competitive behaviors. I believe this extrapolates to mule deer. The basic meaning behind this is that if there is a plethoria of breedable does, and little compitition, there is no real need to expend unnecessary energy on unneeded activities. They also concluded that competition spurs bucks to breed more does. Meaning the less competition there is, any given buck will breed fewer does.

Aditionally, I tend to find scrapes in transitions areas. Meaning key areas generally close to bedding areas. At times, at a bedding site, generally with a view. Once I know of a scrape, I prefer to not get close to it again, during thevseason, as you could push the buck out, and you'd be stinking the area up. I simply note the location along with a location or two I can observe it from, obviously within shooting distance.

I believe we see more scrapes with blacktail because blacktail bucks are dominant over mule deer bucks, per completed studies. Thus, they simply naturally exhibit more territorial behaviors, such as scrapes.

I have added to a bucks scrape, i.e., using a stick and buck urine. It has been effective in getting the buck to tend to the scrape more. What my experience exhibited was that the bucks seem to tend to their scrapes at night. However, they are often vedded close by i.e., within a couple hundred yards.

 

[ORwaterfowler]

That is one thing about this spot is there are no good glassing points closer than about a mile, you pretty much have to be on it to hunt it which I guess ties to why there was a good buck using it. Plus there is only one good way in and out so really limits the approach with the wind direction.

Looking back at some previous waypoints, one of the bucks was roughly 600 yds down the drainage in thicker bedding area mid-day when I jumped him so not too far off. Thinking back to another buck my dad took was roughly 700 yds from where I found a few small fresh rubs on the same ridge about 20 min prior and likely bumped towards him.

Definitely seems like I've been not paying enough attention and need to work the area harder when I do find them. I'm going to order Robby's book today, any insight on if there is any content on this subject?

Thanks for the info, lots to learn.

 

[Bubblehide]

I have yet to read Robby's book, so I can't provide any insight on what it provides. However, his book has obviously been praised by many.

To add, size of territory, and distance to wintering and staging areas obviously can affect the usefullness of finding scrapes, i.e., they need to be active. A friend sometimes hunts a zone in which the territory is huge, about 10 square miles. In such an area, bumping a buck can easily result in never finding him again. I hunt a zones staging area, i.e., a stop-holding area on the way to their wintering area. Bumping bucks there, can lead to never finding them again, or putting them out of range unless your packpack hunting and pack your camp with you. Typically, if I find a scrap one year, it will be active in following years.

Lastly, rubs have been inconsistent. Sometimes I find rubs at scrapes, sometimes not near a scrape. If a rub is not near a scrap, I have not found them to be consistently year after year, before, during and after the season. I think scrapes mark territory in general, whild rubs, during the season mark breading season; obviously I am excluding rubbing off velvet, as I do not view that as territorial or breading related. However, it could be territory related, to a degree. But since it happens well before breading-stages of the rut, I don't see a connection to rutting.

 

[Bubblehide]

Oops, one more, to me, scrapes come from mature bucks (not necessarily larged antelered). Simply put, immature bucks may be around, but mature bucks maintain a level of dominance, subjective to the level of competition in the area.

 

[69thokayestshooter]

If there's no rubs, probably less deer or not as many big deer around

 

[Huntnnw]

Bucks rub trees frequently once the velvet is off, I read that a buck can rub up to 300-400 trees in the fall

 

[ORwaterfowler]

Unfortunately I wont be able to look and see if that ridge is still being used as we are locked out from recent fires. Learning new ground this year in a different portion of the unit with a lot more water / the summer range seems more spread out. I did end up getting Robbie's book and there was a short mention on rubs but believe it was for Nov, lots of good info otherwise though. I think my biggest takeaway is to pay more attention to the small things, looking back on the tracks I've found have not put enough stock in those either. Headed out for the last half of the season hoping guys clear out a bit.

 

[TimberMuleys]

I have tried searching but have not found much on the subject of rubs and mule deer other than for shedding their velvet or Nov rutting. In the area I have hunted over the past 12 years (Fairly heavily timbered 4-7k ft Oregon) we find fresh deer rubs in early to mid October and have at times found a buck in the same drainage not all that far away. It's not something that I have paid all that much attention to in the past, but found a rub that was clearly very fresh and from a solid buck towards the end of last season around 6k on mountain mahogany on a ridge with good escape routes and cover / all the needs covered.

There are a lot of elk rubs in the general area too but not close to this and this one had hair still in the bark / was lower etc.

My question is can this kind of sign be used reliably that the buck is still using that area as a form of tracking, or am I reading too much into it and is more of a coincidence in finding the deer not too far from the rubs on occasion?

I most definitely think that if you are finding fresh mule deer rubs in early October that you are close to where that buck is living. I have 2 examples to give. 1 was a few years ago, my grandpa and I found a great buck living room near the only water we could find on the mountain. It was in a burn so there was lots of feed and bedding nearby as well. We set up a camera and had him on it almost immediately. Opening day of rifle (2nd weekend in Oct for WA) my grandpa jumped him out of his bed not too far from the rub line. Maybe a couple hundred yards down the ridge? He ended up shooting right over the back of it and it disappeared until the rut.

Example #2 was my buck this year. To put it short, I had 11 cameras out for a buck and only had him on one of them. I found a few fresh rubs on top of the ridge about 200yds from the camera he had been on and in between a known feeding and bedding area. I marked them and decided to still hunt that area on the last day of season and ended up killing that buck I was chasing at 32yds. He was feeding along the ridge and had just rubbed a tree before I shot him. Pictures included below.

 

[Huntnnw]

I most definitely think that if you are finding fresh mule deer rubs in early October that you are close to where that buck is living. I have 2 examples to give. 1 was a few years ago, my grandpa and I found a great buck living room near the only water we could find on the mountain. It was in a burn so there was lots of feed and bedding nearby as well. We set up a camera and had him on it almost immediately. Opening day of rifle (2nd weekend in Oct for WA) my grandpa jumped him out of his bed not too far from the rub line. Maybe a couple hundred yards down the ridge? He ended up shooting right over the back of it and it disappeared until the rut.

Example #2 was my buck this year. To put it short, I had 11 cameras out for a buck and only had him on one of them. I found a few fresh rubs on top of the ridge about 200yds from the camera he had been on and in between a known feeding and bedding area. I marked them and decided to still hunt that area on the last day of season and ended up killing that buck I was chasing at 32yds. He was feeding along the ridge and had just rubbed a tree before I shot him. Pictures included below.

great buck, but that trail cam isnt him.

I have been fortunate enough in N ID to hunt a muley spot I have found that is undisturbed by hunting pressure and I am able to glass from a far miles of this country. One thing I have learned is the crazy amount of country the mule deer cover on a daily basis. I can turn up the same bucks almost daily and rarely are they near where they were the day before. They utilize the same mountain side on a daily basis and live there, but they could be 1 mile away tomorrow and 1 mile the other the next day