Fragmenting bullets versus controlled expanding bullets

[ElPollo]

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1237&=&context=hwi&=

That is the study everyone cites but no one can replicate.

 

[mt terry d]

My only complaint with fragmenting bullets is they wreck a lot of meat and shower the inside of the animal with lead particles. They kill fine, but if I am meat hunting I try to not use them any more or would neck/head shoot.

re: Lead in food.

Given two plates of meat: One is labeled as contains lead, and the other says it does not contain lead, everyone reading this thread picks the no lead meat to feed their family. They will do this regardless of what study they read about it that says eating lead is safe. And they do this because they instinctively know that eating lead is the bad option if given the choice not to do so.

My family will eat both plates of meat and think nothing of it.

If you're not "meat hunting" do you just throw the meat away from an animal you've not shot in the
head or neck?

I've never taken an animal to a processor. If there's bullet damaged meat it gets tossed for the magpies,
ravens, eagles, coyotes and the neighbor's dogs.

Much ado about nothing, as the saying goes.

 

[Southern Lights]

My family will eat both plates of meat and think nothing of it.

If you're not "meat hunting" do you just throw the meat away from an animal you've not shot in the
head or neck?

I've never taken an animal to a processor. If there's bullet damaged meat it gets tossed for the magpies,
ravens, eagles, coyotes and the neighbor's dogs.

Much ado about nothing, as the saying goes.

I'll take backsteaks/eye filets if they don't show blood shot and rear quarters. The rest I usually leave. I don't deny fragmenting bullets work. I just think fragmenting bullets cause a huge mess.

I've switched recently to monos as I got tired of bloodshot and waste. I don't have to worry about it any more. I can take more of the animal without concern. Also, I don't need to worry about the animals that may eat the carcass.

 

[Macintosh]

My family will eat both plates of meat and think nothing of it.

If you're not "meat hunting" do you just throw the meat away from an animal you've not shot in the
head or neck?

I've never taken an animal to a processor. If there's bullet damaged meat it gets tossed for the magpies,
ravens, eagles, coyotes and the neighbor's dogs.

Much ado about nothing, as the saying goes.

You clearly dont shoot deer as small as I do.

 

[omicron1792]

There is no argument over bonded & mono vs light cup and core
When you are multi species hunting In Alaska, or Africa mono or bonded is mandatory
Yeah yeah some one will chime in and say I killed my ? With a eldm in Africa
99% chance is they where hunting in RSA on a game ranch
Go to wild Africa and your PH will be very disappointed with you bringing match bullets
Same with any outfit doing nilgai hunts or non resident moose hunting

Just not true

 

[mtnbound]

It's easy if you don't want to deal with the possibility of lead fragments in an animal shot with rapidly expanding bullets, don't use them. Even some controlled expansion bullets can leave lead fragments, so your choice would be copper or something like the DRT bullets. I have used RE and CE bullets, and both kill when put in the right spot. Which bullet style kills better? Test for yourself.

 

[ElPollo]

Maybe don’t shoot shoulders.

 

[JGRaider]

Shoulders are fine with the right bullet......


Behind the shoulder as well with the right bullets...

Not so much with the wrong bullet....

 

[FredH]

That is the study everyone cites but no one can replicate.

Or maybe replicating the obvious is not something a lot of people want to spend money on replicating.

It's easy if you don't want to deal with the possibility of lead fragments in an animal shot with rapidly expanding bullets, don't use them. Even some controlled expansion bullets can leave lead fragments, so your choice would be copper or something like the DRT bullets. I have used RE and CE bullets, and both kill when put in the right spot. Which bullet style kills better? Test for yourself.

Pretty sure I have already mentioned all bullets with lead cores shed fragments, some though far more than others. Kills better? Dead is dead and as long as recovery isn't a problem then neither killed "better".

 

[FredH]

Just not true

Funny wonder why my PH told me he wanted me shooting Partitions, Swift Aframes or any good bonded bullet. Penetration means a lot actually.

 

[FredH]

My family will eat both plates of meat and think nothing of it.

If you're not "meat hunting" do you just throw the meat away from an animal you've not shot in the
head or neck?

I've never taken an animal to a processor. If there's bullet damaged meat it gets tossed for the magpies,
ravens, eagles, coyotes and the neighbor's dogs.

Much ado about nothing, as the saying goes.

Well good for you. As for not taking game to processors some of us have to go to work Monday morning and don't feel like staying up all night after three days of getting up before daylight hunting till midnight hopeing a hog will show up. I far prefer to handle my own game but sometimes it is just not possible My hunting must be much different than yours, getting to pick shot angles is not always the case and some deer are shot running. But if you hunt over feeders or on lightly hunted private property then your hunting is both much easier and less interesting than mine.

 

[omicron1792]

Ive been too my man.

Funny wonder why my PH told me he wanted me shooting Partitions, Swift Aframes or any good bonded bullet. Penetration means a lot actually.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Funny wonder why my PH told me he wanted me shooting Partitions, Swift Aframes or any good bonded bullet. Penetration means a lot actually.

Same here , they all hammer it into my head, bring barns TSX , swift A frame, TBBC , terminal accent, never eldx or M , TGK or TMK , Berger
Matter of Fact they say never come with those

 

[The Guide]

Am I the only one who is more worried about bone fragments and bone dust in my meat than lead? I've had more issues with bone in meat than bullet in meat. Made learn how to aim off the shoulder and aim for where the bullet will exit not just for the entrance. I also gut, skin, quarter, and debone all my own meat to control the quality of the table fare. I can gut, skin, and debone a deer into primal quarters in about 40 minutes. It isn't hard. If I want sausage made I bring the cleaned meat to the sausage house I like and have enough meat to do my own batch (40 to 60 pounds game meat) so it isn't mixed with anyone else's meat. I cut all my own steaks, make all my own jerky (we eat lots of dried meat), and grind burger out of elk (my family doesn't care for deer burger so it is all sausage or steaks from a deer). All my kids talk about on the way home from a successful hunt is the meals they want to make from their take. I think the extra time to cut my own meat has been worth the lost sleep to know that my family is more interested in wildgame meals than grip and grins.

Jay

 

[omicron1792]

Same here , they all hammer it into my head, bring barns TSX , swift A frame, TBBC , terminal accent, never eldx or M , TGK or TMK , Berger
Matter of Fact they say never come with those

Yes. That is the talk with the old guard. But it is changing. Check out @Ryan Avery trip over. They fell just as easily.

I used federal fusion and all 9 dropped quite easily

 

[FredH]

Yes. That is the talk with the old guard. But it is changing. Check out @Ryan Avery trip over. They fell just as easily.

I used federal fusion and all 9 dropped quite easily

Pretty sure Federal Fusion comes under the heading of a good bonded bullet.

 

[FredH]

Am I the only one who is more worried about bone fragments and bone dust in my meat than lead? I've had more issues with bone in meat than bullet in meat. Made learn how to aim off the shoulder and aim for where the bullet will exit not just for the entrance. I also gut, skin, quarter, and debone all my own meat to control the quality of the table fare. I can gut, skin, and debone a deer into primal quarters in about 40 minutes. It isn't hard. If I want sausage made I bring the cleaned meat to the sausage house I like and have enough meat to do my own batch (40 to 60 pounds game meat) so it isn't mixed with anyone else's meat. I cut all my own steaks, make all my own jerky (we eat lots of dried meat), and grind burger out of elk (my family doesn't care for deer burger so it is all sausage or steaks from a deer). All my kids talk about on the way home from a successful hunt is the meals they want to make from their take. I think the extra time to cut my own meat has been worth the lost sleep to know that my family is more interested in wildgame meals than grip and grins.

Jay

I never intentionally shoot for the shoulder but it happens sometimes as I take running shots if the need arises and I am confident of making it. When you come home with a truck load of deer, a few from each hunter at 1am and have to be at work by 6:30 am dropping them off at a processors cooler is the only way to do it. If hunting by myself and there are only a deer or two I am happy to hang, skin and quarter my deer and cut/package to suit. One of the processors out here makes fantastic sausage and I will sometimes cut up what I want made into sausage and take it to them. I have found that deer burger is the easiest to give to friends.

 

[omicron1792]

Pretty sure Federal Fusion comes under the heading of a good bonded bullet.

You would be wrong on that.

From my 6.5prc it sheds up to 50 percent of its weight.

Shank found from my elk.

 

[The Guide]

I never intentionally shoot for the shoulder but it happens sometimes as I take running shots if the need arises and I am confident of making it. When you come home with a truck load of deer, a few from each hunter at 1am and have to be at work by 6:30 am dropping them off at a processors cooler is the only way to do it. If hunting by myself and there are only a deer or two I am happy to hang, skin and quarter my deer and cut/package to suit. One of the processors out here makes fantastic sausage and I will sometimes cut up what I want made into sausage and take it to them. I have found that deer burger is the easiest to give to friends.

I guess it is a matter of desire. Wife and kids were drawn for a whitetail deer damage hunt last year and it started 8/15. Our hunt days were 8/17 and 8/18. It was 97 degrees at last light and they shot 4 does. We couldn't gut them in the field as they wanted to kill as many as possible and didn't want to have gut piles in the fields. In 2 hours I gutted, skinned, debone, and processed 4 deer into boneless primal's and had them on blocked ice in 2 coolers. All I used was a tree, a rope, and my tailgate. Most people don't have the skills to process a whole animal and thats OK. I grew up poor and had to figure out how to live the lifestyle I wanted with little money. I still don't like paying other people to do what I can do myself. Only time I take a truck load of deer to the processor is when I'm donating to the food bank and that is only due to rules and regulations about donating meat.

Jay

 

[ElPollo]

Or maybe replicating the obvious is not something a lot of people want to spend money on replicating.

The Wisconsin report is the one that reported tiny lead fragments traveling through up to 18” of critter. The obvious part is that kind of penetration isn’t possible with a mass that low unless you propel it with a railgun. Lots of people have raised that comment in the scientific literature.