Forest Service under threat?

[Skerhunter]

I'm always trying to figure out on these threads when people say "can't just relocate people". The feds are your employer, you don't think that your employer has a right to move? Remember you are an employee. Not trying to start an argument, just the entitlement of that statement amazes me.

Gov employees are very bad about this. Once they get a job the don’t think it will ever change (more work), they could be laid off or the might have to move.

 

[CJ19]

I was using an example to just frame why I believe this move is not for “common sense” reasons based on this admin’s overall position on conservation. If the people you’re talking about are bragging about comp time and all that, and are abusing the system, they should be fired. Every person that I know of that has taken these incentivized retirements or just left the agencies for a different job were great folks that worked their tails off and cared about what they did.

So regardless, similar with the BLM move, people cannot just uproot their lives on a whim sometimes. We’ll see what comes out of this but I do not trust it to be for the good of the agency.

The last thing I’ll say is as someone who has been training to be a scientist for a while, the loss of trust in science and research is troubling to me. Calls for science-based wildlife management are thrown from the rafters from all sides of the spectrum, and I hardly ever see true science being followed unless the science aligns with the social sentiment.

1. its not abusing the system. it is the system, which is why many people see it as a problem.
2. everyone agrees there are tons of great people in the federal system and some turds. unfortunately you cant just flush the turds. i have been through these exact kinds of cuts. I do not wish badly on anyone that is layed off.
3. this move is not for common sense? you have not said anything about the move other than about the employees. Cutting probationary employees and pushing out the employees eligible for a settlement or retirement is common practice and exactly how work forces are downsized everywhere. There is absolutely nothing unique about what been done other than the size of the workforce.
4. the only 2 arguments we have seen in this entire thread about why moving to Utah is bad are a. "muh Mike Lee", b. the swamp is in DC and the Forest Service needs to be where the swamp is order to operate.

5. "The last thing I’ll say is as someone who has been training to be a scientist for a while, the loss of trust in science and research is troubling to me. Calls for science-based wildlife management are thrown from the rafters from all sides of the spectrum, and I hardly ever see true science being followed unless the science aligns with the social sentiment."

on this statement imparticular...as someone who has been a scientist for years...i am so tired of appeals to "the science" and "muh conservation" to justify peoples personal political views. as if any of the reasons people are proposing to stay in DC rather than Utah have anything at all to do with being more science based. They are 100% political. "USFS will have better access to the political process if they stay in DC".

Where was the "we need science based conservation" crowd when 40% of spend was required to go to social justice causes instead of "science based conservation"? I did not hear a peep from the industrial conservation complex because they all saw dollar signs in their pocket from this.

https://www.usda.gov/about-usda/news/press-releases/2023/09/14/biden-harris-administration-invests-1-billion-nearly-400-projects-expand-access-trees-and-green

Go woke, go broke. $1 billion US tax payer dollars for the forest service to plant tree in cities via the IRA. That can't be cut. So instead of USFS research has to get cut when its time to cut costs. Instead of research, we are getting trees in cities by the USFS. You want to know where your research money went? Trees in cities is one place.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I for one am glad that they're REDUCING the deficit with these cuts! If they weren't DEFINITELY REDUCING THE DEFICIT™ you might think they were making miniscule cuts to (not even remotely) pay for stupid decisions like new middle eastern wars. But we dodged that bullet it seems!

 

[Ozarkansas]

Where was the "we need science based conservation" crowd when 40% of spend was required to go to social justice causes instead of "science based conservation"?

I think we’ve gone over this before but that’s a misrepresentation of the whole Biden “Justice40 thing”. It wasn’t “40% to social justice causes”, it was that 40% of the benefits of the conservation projects had to benefit “marginalized and underserved communities”, which included poor white people.

You can still find the map online, basically all of the south and Appalachia, and much of the rural west, are highlighted.

 

[solarshooter]

Go woke, go broke. $1 billion US tax payer dollars for the forest service to plant tree in cities via the IRA.

The "war" in Iran is costing $1-2 billion PER DAY. Would I rather tons of trees in cities or 168 dead schoolgirls? Hmmmm.... The willful ignorance of MAGA right is just mind blowing.

ETA: oh and we just sent $450mil in arms to Israel for FREE. Explain to me how that improves our country in any way or reflects sensible practical spending.

 

[JohnJohnson]

It must rock to treat every individual situation like it's happening in a vacuum. It's like the adult version of babies not having object permanence.

 

[Ozarkansas]

unbelievable. while talking about science based conservation, i say i think USFS money would be better spent on research and forest management than planting trees in cities.

What’s unbelievable? I was refuting your characterization of Biden’s whole Justice40 thing, not saying I like trees in cities. I stand by my opinion that you mischaracterized it by setting it up as a choice between “social justice causes” and science based management. The reality is that most science-based management projects would meet the intent of the EO simply by being in rural America.

 

[IdahoBeav]

The "war" in Iran is costing $1-2 billion PER DAY. Would I rather tons of trees in cities or 168 dead schoolgirls? Hmmmm.... The willful ignorance of MAGA right is just mind blowing.

ETA: oh and we just sent $450mil in arms to Israel for FREE. Explain to me how that improves our country in any way or reflects sensible practical spending.

This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Criticize the war all you want, and there is certainly good reason to, but don't act like it's in the interest of women and girls in Iran. Those 168 girls were killed on accident, and it was a tragedy. The Iranian regime is responsible for intentionally killing tens of thousands of girls and women and enforcing a brutal gender apartheid state (like real apartheid, not what you think Israel is) that gave more rights to animals than it did female humans.

It's mind boggling to think that someone would become this delusional all because a federal agency may be reduced.

 

[solarshooter]

like I said. this was never a thread about the USFS moving to Utah or staying in DC. I have no idea what this has to do with anything at all that I have typed or with the USFS.

People keep bringing up the supposed waste and financial irresponsibility that the USFS or other environmental "woke" programs represent. I brought up the war, perpetrated by the same admin who purports to care about America first and balancing the budget,
as an example of a much more egregious waste of money with far wirse outcomes and benefits to America. You can't act concerned about the USFS then ignore other much larger and worse spends of money. They are absolutely related.

This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Criticize the war all you want, and there is certainly good reason to, but don't act like it's in the interest of women and girls in Iran. Those 168 girls were killed on accident, and it was a tragedy. The Iranian regime is responsible for intentionally killing tens of thousands of girls and women and enforcing a brutal gender apartheid state (like real apartheid, not what you think Israel is) that gave more rights to animals than it did female humans.

We could (obviously) debate many details about the war and guilt of various parties. At least we agree there is good reason for criticism. My point was that complaining about 1bil or 10bil of USFS or other environmental program spending in the face of this ridiculous war costing 500-1000x more is stupid and willfully ignorant.

 

[JohnJohnson]

This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Criticize the war all you want, and there is certainly good reason to, but don't act like it's in the interest of women and girls in Iran. Those 168 girls were killed on accident, and it was a tragedy. The Iranian regime is responsible for intentionally killing tens of thousands of girls and women and enforcing a brutal gender apartheid state (like real apartheid, not what you think Israel is) that gave more rights to animals than it did female humans.

It's mind boggling to think that someone would become this delusional all because a federal agency may be reduced.

With our track record in Iraq and Afghanistan I think those women are sleeping easy at night knowing the USA is on the case! Please don't look at our closest allies in the region though, that could lead to some awkward conversations.

 

[IdahoBeav]

With our track record in Iraq and Afghanistan I think those women are sleeping easy at night knowing the USA is on the case! Please don't look at our closest allies in the region though, that could lead to some awkward conversations.

Kinda strange how Iranian women all over the globe were celebrating when the Ayatollah was killed, but they obviously don't understand their own reality as well as the suddenly anti-war talking heads here in the US that didn't seem to mind dropping bombs a decade ago.

 

[realunlucky]

Man you guys are sure something - from the forest service to the rights and wrongs of war. Some people need a break from turning everything political every chance they get.


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[realunlucky]

I'm posting this reminder on political threads please give it a read -

Thread 'Political threads'

Jun 24, 2020

If you are here just to post on the political threads we are going to start helping you leave the site.

Thanks!

• Ryan Avery
• Replies: 76
• Forum: Announcements

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• 

I'm tired of every thread turning into a political mud flinging contest.

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[cal30_sniper]

I'm posting this reminder on political threads please give it a read - https://rokslide.com/forums/th...eads/political-threads.175665/

I'm tired of every thread turning into a political mud flinging contest.

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Link isn’t working, could be a temporary forum glitch thing though: