Forest Service HQ Move

[CorbLand]

Like i said to Jason above I wasn't asking the front desk person, it was in a meeting with a Forest Supervisor, who if that was what they needed from me could have said fill out a FOIA but they didn't.

The sad thing is that the front desk person is probably better at directing you to the place you need to go.

If you truly want to know, the only way to get the actual truth of what has or hasn’t happened is via a FOIA. Even asking the people directly leaves it up to interpretation and opinion.

I can’t speak for other entities but my director knows **** all about really anything when it comes to the money side of things. All he really knows is that projects are or aren’t happening. He doesn’t know what funding is being used or where it came from. He should know but he doesn’t and doesn’t care to learn it.

That is why people need to do a FOIA. It will force him to answer. Outside of that, he can dodge it.

FOIA also helps get the questions being asked to the right people to answer them. There is funding that we get, that I know what it can and can’t be used for and that’s it. I don’t know where the funding comes from or how it was obtained.

If it was other FS employees that were frustrated that tells me that it’s largely an administrative/director level problem. As someone who is in a middle management position, that’s not uncommon. Literally dealing with that currently.

Edit to add. None of this is directed directly at you. It’s more to help people understand both sides of the coin. The government needs to be better but so does the general public.

 

[riversidejeep]

The sad thing is that the front desk person is probably better at directing you to the place you need to go.

If you truly want to know, the only way to get the actual truth of what has or hasn’t happened is via a FOIA. Even asking the people directly leaves it up to interpretation and opinion.

I can’t speak for other entities but my director knows **** all about really anything when it comes to the money side of things. All he really knows is that projects are or aren’t happening. He doesn’t know what funding is being used or where it came from. He should know but he doesn’t and doesn’t care to learn it.

That is why people need to do a FOIA. It will force him to answer. Outside of that, he can dodge it.

FOIA also helps get the questions being asked to the right people to answer them. There is funding that we get, that I know what it can and can’t be used for and that’s it. I don’t know where the funding comes from or how it was obtained.

If it was other FS employees that were frustrated that tells me that it’s largely an administrative/director level problem. As someone who is in a middle management position, that’s not uncommon. Literally dealing with that currently.

Edit to add. None of this is directed directly at you. It’s more to help people understand both sides of the coin. The government needs to be better but so does the general public.

And this is the problem with all government, everybody just points their finger to the next guy in line. Nobody knows anything except what time the noon whistle blows. If it was a private business every last one of them would be fired and the whole outfit would be bankrupt within days. Here is a little quote I'm going to steal from another website " Anybody that doesn't like bashing on the Forest Circus wears green pants."

 

[LCguy]

If you think that moving the USFS HQ to Utah, the home of the anti-public land movement, is a good thing, I don't think we can even begin to have an intelligent conversation about the matter.

Getting rid of regional offices on its own is catastrophic for research. Better buckle up for what comes next. You thought BLM lands were uninhabitable moonscapes, just wait until watersheds can no longer sustain healthy streams.

 

[CorbLand]

And this is the problem with all government, everybody just points their finger to the next guy in line. Nobody knows anything except what time the noon whistle blows. If it was a private business every last one of them would be fired and the whole outfit would be bankrupt within days. Here is a little quote I'm going to steal from another website " Anybody that doesn't like bashing on the Forest Circus wears green pants."

Yes, it is a major problem. Good employees get pushed out or just can’t handle it and quit. I am looking for my exit. Not saying that I am the most stellar employee but I am good at what I do and have a desire to be at least competent in my role.

I know plenty of people that work for large corporations. It’s the same way. You might get fired if you worked in a small to medium business but anything that would be considered large is no different than the government.

I deal with some very large private businesses for my job. Honestly, about half the people I deal with there are no smarter or better than half the people in my office. Even some of the smaller mom and pops are just as bad.

I am all for bashing on government but if you’re going to bash on them and their employees, you better be truthful and factual in your bashing. Anything outside of that only aids in the ability to continue being shitty.

Edit to add. Everyone wants to point fingers and boil problems down to one thing. The reality is that there is truth on both sides.
Could my department be better? Absolutely, 100 percent.
But
Our budgets are not increasing with inflation. Inflation affects us too. We are being asked to maintain the same buildings, with the same amount of funds while simultaneously that maintenance is more expensive and we have an increased number of people using the buildings, which only increases wear and tear.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I know plenty of people that work for large corporations. It’s the same way. You might get fired if you worked in a small to medium business but anything that would be considered large is no different than the government.

I deal with some very large private businesses for my job. Honestly, about half the people I deal with there are no smarter or better than half the people in my office. Even some of the smaller mom and pops are just as bad.

This is absolute truth.

Are there bad employees in government? You bet. Are there bad supervisors in government? You bet? Are there very good employees and supervisors in government? You bet. No different than ANY other business out there, big, medium or small.

I have a friend who works for a very large extractive industry company. He tells me stories of incompetence and bureaucracy that would blow away some government agencies.

Time will tell if this is a good move. Given the level of thought that went into the original DOGE cuts, I don’t have a lot of hope this is a good thing from MY perspective as a public land hunter and angler.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Nobody knows anything except what time the noon whistle blows.

What a ridiculous stereotype.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Here’s a good summary of the research sites/facilities in my neck of the woods, and what their closures might mean (to be fair, only one is currently listed as closing but the others aren’t explicit being kept open either).

What the USFS move might mean for Arkansas

Forest management has improved a lot in Arkansas over my lifetime, in large part thanks to research done by the USFS at these sites. It would be extremely detrimental to the forests of the interior highlands if these sites ended up closing, which is my biggest concern.

Edit: I know this is a western hunting forum and a lot of guys are focusing on the impact this might have on the west, but I’ll be honest I’m more concerned about my own backyard since that’s where I do most of my hunting.

 

[TheTone]

And this is the problem with all government, everybody just points their finger to the next guy in line. Nobody knows anything except what time the noon whistle blows. If it was a private business every last one of them would be fired and the whole outfit would be bankrupt within days. Here is a little quote I'm going to steal from another website " Anybody that doesn't like bashing on the Forest Circus wears green pants."

I’ll share a couple recent examples of crappy private business that no one is getting fired for.

I went into local tire shop last year for brake pads, they refused to do just pads and said they had to change rotors also said they couldn’t turn rotors, they had to be full replacements because they said they were liable if something happened to me. My wife went into the same business to get her winter tires swapped over. They refused to put her summers tires on as they were “bald” despite having only about 40,000 miles. Again the salesman claimed he was liable if something bad happened if they swapped the tires. Total and complete BS on both accounts

Went to appliance shop to see if they had a lightbulb for my refrigerator. Checked with the parts guy and had to actually show him the part number online for him to check and see what it even was. After telling me they have never even ordered one he quoted me a price significantly higher than the manufacturer sells it for online and said “well I guess you should buy it online”. He also had a 3/4 empty bottle of tequila sitting behind his computer monitor

 

[Customweld]

I’ll share a couple recent examples of crappy private business that no one is getting fired for.

I went into local tire shop last year for brake pads, they refused to do just pads and said they had to change rotors also said they couldn’t turn rotors, they had to be full replacements because they said they were liable if something happened to me. My wife went into the same business to get her winter tires swapped over. They refused to put her summers tires on as they were “bald” despite having only about 40,000 miles. Again the salesman claimed he was liable if something bad happened if they swapped the tires. Total and complete BS on both accounts

Not to derail the thread but I went to Discount Tire yesterday to rotate the tires on my 2nd gen Cummins. I was right at 5k since the last rotation and the tires are evenly wore but every other lug on the fronts were starting to wear. The kid scanned the tires and said "you are at 8/32nds on the inside and 10/32nds on the outside we don't recommend rotating them" I told him "these are 50k mile tires that aren't going to make it to 25k. Rotate them so you can't weasel out of the warranty.