Foam Insulation Wall Injection Thoughts

Muddler

Lil-Rokslider
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Anyone ever have foam insulation injected into the walls of their house?

I believe one end of my house needs it for sure. The house is zoned for heat and that end always struggles to stay warm in the winter when it's really cold (<15) and is warm in the summer (>85ish). There is a spot in the kitchen that has no insulation..I'll spare you the story but it aint there. The insulation in the attic is uniform across the house, the windows are about 10 yrs old and not drafty. I shot the walls this winter with a heat gun and the walls in the cold area were 8-10 degrees colder than the warmer part of the house. FWIW...hot water baseboard heat that's zoned and forced air A/C that isn't zoned.

This isn't a DIY for me...I'll hire a contractor. Any pitfalls to avoid? Things to avoid?
 
there might be better ways.

Spray foam offgassing is no joke. not sure how big this space is but it might be worth it to cut ALL of the drywall out and put in rockwool or cellulose. It would also give you the opportunity to see if there is excessive holes in the exterior wall letting in moisture, bugs, etc.
 
Like journeyman said, dense packed blown in cellulose works well as a retrofit. There’s a lot of documentation and examples online in the energy conservation forums.

Foam will be much more expensive. That money would be better spent adding extra insulation to the attic.

Everyone local we talked to about our Nevada house said nobody insulates attics above minimums, yet everyone complains about cooling performance. It made no sense to me so we upped the attic insulation to R50 and the results are so dramatic it makes me question both the insulation industry and HVAC contractors. I firmly believe insulation contractors are so conditioned to bid jobs at minimal levels to be competitive on price, and HVAC guys do what they know, which is installing equipment and neither are good at the overall energy efficiency of existing homes.

The nice thing about insulation is it’s one of the only things in a house that pays for itself. Free. Literally free in the long term.
 
My wife and I built our own home. We did the work ourselves with very few exceptions. One task we hired out was sprayed in closed cell foam insulation in the exterior walls. We have a 3000 sq ft home and our combined gas and electric utilities averages $125 per month. Our home is evenly cooled and heated. We couldn't be happier with our insulation decision.
 
There are much better ways to go about it but more work/effort and at much greater expense. FWIW when you inject foam there is no way to verify the quality of the work, the actual coverage inside the walls, whether or not it cured properly etc. it’s a strictly price point/ easy way out option with the mixed results to down right harmful going to cost you more in the long run risk.
 
To be clear, I am making a distinction between Injecting foam into existing walls vs doing spray foam into open wall cavities.
 
I woukd cut an exploratory hole in the wall to see what's in there for insulation. If nothing, I'd punch 3 inch holes in the studd bays and blow in cellulose.

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I woukd cut an exploratory hole in the wall to see what's in there for insulation. If nothing, I'd punch 3 inch holes in the studd bays and blow in cellulose.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk
Cheapest most cost effective
 
This was the BEST money I have ever spent in my life.

Winter 2008/9 we bought out home. That winter was a cold one and I burned 3 x 400 gallon tanks of propane in survival mode. Ice on the inside walls and everyone wearing sweats and hoodies and wool socks.

There was ZERO insulation in the walls. I scoped them and checked.

That spring, I had USA insulation do my home.

Immediately, the road noise was GONE. Loud pipe motorcycles just a dull buzz.

The following several years, we burned a single tank and were comfortable in winter. No more sweats and hoodies just to survive.

Installing a heat pump further cut my propane consumption in half.
 
Off gassing was a concern. Ive read about ppl replacing attic insulation w/ spray foam and having issues like that.

I really was hoping to keep wall repairs to a minimum...ideally do it from the outside (brick house), put a but of mortar in the holes and be good. We're going to paint soon anyways. Really don't want to rip all of the drywall out.

@Jpsmith1 you had USA Insulation do foam injection?
 
The biggest issue in wall cavities is when the wall wasn't originally designed for it.

You didn't say what type of foam, and it matters. There are two types of foam. Open cell allows both vapor and moisture to pass through it. This is the least likely to change how the wall "operates" vis-a-vis your current insulation (none) does the same thing. Closed-cell completely seals the space, stopping all air and vapor movement.

Humidity moves from higher to lower, like heat. In nearly all climates, it moves both directions - one way in winter and the other in summer. This happens even if you don't think of where you live as having a true "dry winter" (Florida) or "humid summer" (Colorado Rockies). Normally this is, and stays, a vapor, and it isn't a problem. The problem comes with what's known as the "dew point" in the wall:

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With no insulation, your dew point is nearly always the interior drywall or exterior sheathing depending on the season. Moisture will condense there, which sounds bad but is actually normal - IF it has a way to dry out. Drywall is actually vapor open, even with latex paint on it, so a wall can "dry to in". And your sheathing is designed to shed water as well, and modern wall systems also include a "WRB" layer that additionally can shed this moisture. So no problem so far.

When you add insulation, you change the dew point curve, and move the "point" either inward or outward. With something like a dense-pack cellulose (which would also be my choice, as others have mentioned) that is very vapor-permeable, so if moisture now start condensing inside it, it can still dry out either direction with no problem. The same is true of rock wool and other common types.

The problem with foam depends on its type:
1. Open Cell is vapor open and can dry both directions. However, it acts like a sponge, holding water easily and even transporting it if you have a leak. Other insulation types can do the same thing, but open-cell "wicks" - it can draw moisture potentially several feet from a leak, and hold onto it a lot longer, making it "soggy". So although it can still dry (and is still the best choice IMO for a retrofit wall installation) it can still lead to mold growth and structural rot if you have a leak. It's important with open-cell to be sure your exterior sheathing and cladding are solid, leak-proof, and in good condition.

2. Closed Cell is air- and vapor-closed and will not transport moisture at all. In a new construction build this can be an advantage. A 1-inch "lift" of closed-cell is often used to air-seal a wall, which completely eliminates all drafts. (It's expensive, so frequently they stop here and use a traditional insulation to fill the rest of the cavity.) But this works in new construction because it's also commonly paired with exterior continuous insulation (typically some type of foam board or mineral wool). That moves the dew point even further "out" in the wall assembly. If done right, moisture won't condense on the foam. If done wrong, moisture will condense exactly there and have no way to dry out at all (because the foam itself prevents that). That gives you mold growth and sheathing rot, or worse.

You may not realize this but spray foam is an inexpensive, decent-margin business to get into - you just need a van, the spray equipment, and you can buy the foam in 55-gal drums. Businesses you can get into for $5k-$10k are the exact ones where you find fly-by-night operators who don't care what happens inside your wall in 10 years, and that's the rub - you won't have a problem in year 1. It's accretive - it'll be years before you have a problem and they'll be long gone by then.

If you decide to proceed with the foam I strongly recommend asking what type of foam they plan to install. Find out how long they've been in business. And ask them how their install will change the "dew point" in your wall. If they look confused or say "we've never had a problem before", run away.
 
@taskswap good info thank you.

Im almost certain there is insulation in the walls, it's just cheap/low R value stuff. We found out a couple years after we bought it the original owner built most of it himself back in the early 80s. Based on other things ive found my guess is he took a shortcut here.
 
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