Flintlock Question

[Jmort1754]

Looking to buy one for the late season flintlock only in pa.

Anyone ever messed with the traditions PA Pellet?

 

[Gen273]

I have had a flintlock on my mind lately as well. So I am interested in any responses as well.

 

[EdP]

Maybe some useful info here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/tradition-vs-pedersoli.73805/

I have not owned either but know and have shot with people that own Pedersoli's. Accuracy seems fine but the locks are just not very good and flintlock reliability is all about the lock. If you want a quality product for less $ than the custom shops offer, take a look at the rifles produced by TVM (Tenn Valley ML, Matt Avance). They are still not cheap but they are well made with quality components. These will be rifled for patched roundball, not conicals or sabots.

 

[FrontierGander]

I'd suggest looking at the hawken woodsman. The PA pellet is a good rifle, it still sucks with pellets obviously, but the hawken with its wood stock, steel sights and double set triggers, would a much better set up.

 

[jayhawk]

If you want a VERY easy, but rewarding project, look at Jim Kibler's kits. https://kiblerslongrifles.com/

They're more expensive than most other kits, but you'll get more than you paid for. Never had a single problem with my Kibler rifle.

 

[HighUintas]

+1 on the Kibler kit. They also offer quick ship/discount kits. Considering that the lock is the heart of a flintlocks performance and reliability, it would be wise to get a Kibler kit if you have the money for it. His locks are CNC machined and are so tightly toleranced, all of his lock parts are interchangeable and the locks as they come from him do not need to be tuned.

Otherwise, it seems that people are generally fond of their pedersoli Blue ridge / frontier flintlocks and Lyman GPR flintlocks. I think those two are the production flintlocks I see referenced most often as being decent for a production flintlock and being more affordable.

Going with a traditions flintlock for your first flintlock will make a steep learning curve steeper. I've heard of quite a few instances where people have had to get a replacement frizzen for their new traditions flintlock because the frizzen that came on their lock was not hardened properly.

A good place to look for used or new flintlocks is muzzleloadingforum.com and americanlongrifles.org forum. The ALR forum has a bunch of professional long rifle builders who freely share tips and tricks and how to's on building and post their builds for all to view. They are true masters of the art of building a long rifle and it's very inspiring. If you join there, you may end up deciding to build one from scratch!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I owned a traditions flintlock from 2000-2006, will never touch another one. My family now runs 4 of the lyman deerstalker flintlocks (first purchase in 2002), they've been very accurate (particularly with full-bore lead conical variants) and have had really good in the field reliability. Older TC flintlocks can be very good too, but are tough to find on demand. For a current production, off the shelf option, the Lyman is tops IMO.

Every flintlock I've encountered has been an absolute maintenance hog compared to any other weapon, so keep that in mind when you're getting started. Cleaning is essential, messy, and takes a while, but you need to be thorough.

I use 4F goex in the pan, 3F goex for the main charge. Pellets and blackpowder substitutes can be tough to light from a flint, particularly as it gets colder.

 

[slatebuilder]

I owned a traditions flintlock from 2000-2006, will never touch another one. My family now runs 4 of the lyman deerstalker flintlocks (first purchase in 2002), they've been very accurate (particularly with full-bore lead conical variants) and have had really good in the field reliability. Older TC flintlocks can be very good too, but are tough to find on demand. For a current production, off the shelf option, the Lyman is tops IMO.

Every flintlock I've encountered has been an absolute maintenance hog compared to any other weapon, so keep that in mind when you're getting started. Cleaning is essential, messy, and takes a while, but you need to be thorough.

I use 4F goex in the pan, 3F goex for the main charge. Pellets and blackpowder substitutes can be tough to light from a flint, particularly as it gets colder.

What this guy said.

Lyman Great Plains rifles are drool worthy. If I was buying today that is what I would seek out.

Black powder works best in flintlocks. Like any other rifle try different charges of 2 and 3f to see what shoots best. I have 2 older TC PA hunters. Both are of early 90 vintage, and they are excellent with patched round balls.

After we clean them for the season seal the barrel and flash hole with Vaseline. It keeps air out.

 

[FrontierGander]

ehhhh, i dunno gents. If lyman/investarm was such quality, investarm wouldnt have had a recall of 20,000 barrels, which caused lyman to drop the product from their line up. Ive had my share of lyman guns over the years and they had their issues just as everything else.

 

[Runningwater]

I have a TVM early Virginian in 54 with a half round, half octagon 42" barrel with a Queen Anne lock. Wonderful rifle. They have gotten more expensive over the years, I got mine finished for under $800 20 or so years ago - looks like they are now $1750. I'd never heard of Kibler, but they look like an excellent quality kit. Not inexpensive either, but looks super. I'll also agree on an older TC Hawkin or Renegade. Not as authentic, but quality, tough, and accurate. A friend of mine found one as new on GB last year for $500. Good luck, shooting a FL is a hell of a lot of fun!

 

[HighUintas]

ehhhh, i dunno gents. If lyman/investarm was such quality, investarm wouldnt have had a recall of 20,000 barrels, which caused lyman to drop the product from their line up. Ive had my share of lyman guns over the years and they had their issues just as everything else.

Did they actually say that's the reason they went from investarms to pedersoli?

 

[FrontierGander]

Did they actually say that's the reason they went from investarms to pedersoli?

not directly, but it was pretty obvious. Investarm renamed the great plains rifle as the gemmer hawken to make up for the loss. Lyman did state that they washed their hands in the firearms sector. Too much risk for them once all those barrels came out defective. I have worked with one investarm since the rebranding and it was a darn good looking gun. Not comfortable until i see a lot more of the new guns being put to the test by shooters.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

What was the barrel issue?

 

[FrontierGander]

I'll show you tomorrow when I can log onto my computer. Breech plugs were defective and snapping off.

 

[dmossu]

not directly, but it was pretty obvious. Investarm renamed the great plains rifle as the gemmer hawken to make up for the loss. Lyman did state that they washed their hands in the firearms sector. Too much risk for them once all those barrels came out defective. I have worked with one investarm since the rebranding and it was a darn good looking gun. Not comfortable until i see a lot more of the new guns being put to the test by shooters.

resurrecting this thread. Have you had any more experience with the Investarms? I am considering an Investarms Bridger Hawken or a Traditions Hawken Woodsman.

 

[FrontierGander]

Got a Bridger Hawken in today. Triggers are pretty bad. I'll know more as work progresses.

 

[Stalker69]

If you want a VERY easy, but rewarding project, look at Jim Kibler's kits. https://kiblerslongrifles.com/

They're more expensive than most other kits, but you'll get more than you paid for. Never had a single problem with my Kibler rifle.

Yep, if your serious, this for sure is one to look at, get. Life’s to short to shoot ugly rifles.

 

[87TT]

If you can afford it, just get the Kibler. It is the Swarovski of Flintlocks. They flat work and CS is number one. Anything else is just settling.

 

[Ddubs20]

"I'll also agree on an older TC Hawkin or Renegade. Not as authentic, but quality, tough, and accurate."

I posted a while back with a muzzleloader question, everyone on here told me my TC renegade muzzeloader was junk and I needed something else. Whatever you decide, practice is key. I think a rear removable breech plug is a good feature and good sights. I'll second the fact that loose black powder works way better than pellets. I use 3f in the barrel and 4f in the pan. Late season is great, but damn cold out there. Best of luck!