Fitted Shotguns

[Stave]

I just read this article about how shotguns should be tailored rather than one-size-fits-most. Makes total sense to me. Anybody done it? How have you fitted a bird gun to yourself? What did you learn?

After a little research, here are the options I'm aware of from least to most expensive:

$0 some guns come with a shim kit. The ones I use do not.
<$50 Cheek Eez pad or Beartooth comb raising kit (I tried Beartooth. It is better than nothing but I don't recommend it)
$50-200+ DIY installed adjustable comb hardware from Graco, SPS, or Cole
$200-$250 Boyd's At One shotgun stock (available for common pump shotguns which I love)
$???? Gunsmith installed hardware, stock bending (it's a thing) and bespoke guns.

So, what have you tried and what have you learned?

Edit: here's where to find certified sporting clays instructors per Macintosh's recommendation

 

[PhotoHunter]

I added a kick eez pad to a hand me down superposed. It added height and cast and fits me perfect. I also have a Beretta A400 with shims, but it fits great from factory without shims.

I don't like the looks of adjustable combs so I look for shotguns that fit me already.

 

[finner]

It's definitely worth going somewhere with a clay thrower and patterning plate and having someone who knows their stuff watch you shoot before you invest in a custom stock or adjustable hardware. Big changes can be as simple as swapping your recoil pad for a thinner model or changing your mount.

 

[Stave]

I added a kick eez pad to a hand me down superposed.

I'm missing something. What is a superposed? And did you add a butt pad or a pad over the comb?

It's definitely worth going somewhere with a clay thrower and patterning plate and having someone who knows their stuff watch you

Any advice on where to go? Are there organizations or training methods that you recommend? I learned to shoot years ago at a sportsman club with NRA certified instructors but they never discussed patterning guns at all.

Thank you both for the feedback

 

[PhotoHunter]

A superposed is an over/under shotgun. The kick eez is a pad that lays on top of the comb.

 

[Stave]

Gotcha. Thanks! I'm glad the kick Eez cheek pad helped. I see they sell them in four different thicknesses and they look more ergonomic than the Beartooth pad I tried

 

[Macintosh]

I've spent a pile of time doing this, first learning to shoot better, and after a while I did fittings and built and modified shotgun stocks as a side hustle for a few years. It makes a HUGE difference for "surprise" type wingshooting where you start from a low gun and may not have a lot of warning before having to move, mount and shoot. It does absolutely nothing for aimed shooting like turkey-hunting with a shotgun. if you are very average sized it may not make such a difference becasue guns are +/- built to fit average people, but if you are shaped differently from joe average it can make a world of difference. Games like skeet and trap that are "grooved", i.e. precisely repeated presentations over and over again, and shot from an already-mounted gun, it can help a lot but for many people fit is less critical in these types of games. Sporting clays, FITASC which are shot fro a low-gun position, or hunting grouse, quail, pheasnts, etc is where a good fit matters.

As far as understanding how it works, you shoot a shotgun with your eyes--by this I mean that if you have a hard target focus, it allows your natural eye-hand coordination to point the gun accurately, even at a moving target. If you aim along the barrel or even check your lead agsint a target, your eye will naturally focus on it (the barrel or the bead, not the bird), which will CAUSE you to miss. The way you get around this is to build a gun so that when you mount it naturally, the gun fits you so that it is always pointing exactly where you are looking, without having to check the fit or squirm yourself into looking down the barrel--this allows you to aquire and hold a hard focus on the target, so that when you pull the trigger the gun will already be pointed at the target. Basically, a well-fitted stock allows you to shoot with your eyes, and anything short of this doesnt allow your natural eye-hand coordination to function properly and you will have decreased ability to hit stuff.

There are entire books written on the topic, and various approaches for different use-cases and types of guns. If you are interested, the single best thing you could do would be to take a basic shooting lesson from an NSCA-certified coach--someone with a specific methodology for teaching shooting from a low-gun position at a variety of target presentations, not the guy at the skeet or trap range who can break 25 straight. Even if you are a pretty decent shooter you will learn a lot about fundamentals of your setup, your move to the target, your mount, etc that you may have forgotten, practice some things you may not have thought about, and you will leave with a set of "next steps"--could be getting a gun fitted, could be a practice prescription, etc, but if improving your shooting is something you want to do its money well spent. Also, if you dont have a relatively polished and repeatable mount already, a "well fitted" gun isnt going to do as much as a lesson in the first place--I say that assuming that you are an average-ish dude and that you are using a gun that isnt grossly poorly fitted in the first place.

If you are experimenting with fitting for yourself you can do that too. the comb raising kits are generally for older (like 1940's and earlier) guns that have far more drop at heel than is normal now. Very few modern guns will need too much higher of a comb outside of a few niche uses. You can spend a little time on a pattern board to see how a gun fits you and potentially make some adjustments from that, thats not too hard but it does have to be done in a specific way to be useful--let me know if thats something you want and I can try to describe. The article you linked to has a very basic overview of what you would do--and Del is quite good at what he does, he would be a great person if you are in his area--but it is missing some critical nuance that you will need as far as exactly how to go about patterning for fit, as opposed to just patterning.

 

[Stave]

Macintosh, thank you for your input. I will look for an NSCA coach in my area (central KY). Meanwhile, can you point me towards resources for developing a polished, repeatable mount?

 

[Stave]

And by the way, I learned how to shoot trap, which would explain the lack of emphasis on gun mount.

 

[Macintosh]

Macintosh, thank you for your input. I will look for an NSCA coach in my area (central KY). Meanwhile, can you point me towards resources for developing a polished, repeatable mount?

I dont have a great link, but heres a couple I found that are OK.

He’s a good one on mounting:

Here’s another that has some good visuals of a smooth mount and a drill:

This guy sounds a little like he’s delivering a sermon, and its really focused on clays and the move to the target more so than the mount mechanics—low 3 on a skeet range in this case—but the part about the eyes is important, super critical part of a mount.

Also check out the youtube series “clays to
Game” here—a bit heavy on the sporting clays lingo but you get a real sense of what the guy above’s visuals look like in real life and some background.

https://m.youtube.com/@baschieripellagri1425

 

[Jason Snyder]

Practicing Gun Mount - Only Perfect Practice Makes Perfect

A Correct Gun Mount is the Bedrock of all Good Technique in the Churchill Method of Wingshooting

projectupland.com

The Churchill method has been very effective for me, wing shooting only.

 

[Stave]

Jason and MacIntosh, thank you for the links. I'm still curious, what gun modifications have benefited you? Or have you found that proper training and factory standard gun stocks are perfect for you?

 

[Dos XX]

The rear sight on a shotgun is your eye. Let's say you mount the gun in the pocket of your shoulder and your cheek is on the stock and you are nailing birds, clays, whatever. Now you throw the gun up and it ends up lower on your shoulder. Your point of impact is now raised. In trap you can easily shoot over a target. Mount the gun higher than the optimum place and your POI lowers.

if you normally have your head on the stock with firm pressure, then try to shoot with the same mount but with your head slightly up off the stock / less cheek pressure, you will raise your poi.

If you mount the gun further out onto or further in on your shoulder. You have moved the rear sight and will shoot behind or ahead of the target.

If you have to manhandle your stock to get your beads to align to the point that you aren't canting the gun, this causes you to have to hold it like that instead of it being naturally in a position that doesn't cause can't. If you have to hold it in or out to be can't free, you will have more opportunity to let up on the hold and induce cant.

A stock that fits makes the stock mount happen without having to manhandle the stock into position.

If you are shooting birds over a pointing dog with a pretty open choke, it is more forgiving that trying to shoot trap from the 27 yd line.

 

[chemist]

I am about the size of Joe average so I have lucked out in that respect of gun fit.

I don't mess with getting the gun to fit me and instead try to buy guns that fit. This is true for shotgun, pistol, or rifle. To check gun fit, I close my eyes with the gun held at my waste. I then mount the gun before opening my eyes. I repeat several times with fast mounts, slow mounts, to the right, to the left, pointing high, etc. If I am consistently lined up with the rib/bead I will consider buying it. If I am not lined up then I don't buy the gun.

After purchasing I shoot 4 or 5 rounds of skeet/trap/5 stand. If I am not breaking my average it goes down the road.

I have one inherited shotgun that does not come close to fitting me. When I shoot it I miss birds and clays alike but hang onto it because I smile even when I miss with it.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Jason and MacIntosh, thank you for the links. I'm still curious, what gun modifications have benefited you? Or have you found that proper training and factory standard gun stocks are perfect for you?

Learning to mount a shotgun properly was the biggest thing. It doesn’t go in the pocket of your shoulder, it goes more on your collarbone and the inside of your pec muscle. Also, I have added length of pill to my side by side and that helped tremendously. My Beretta 391 has stock shims and I played around with those until I got that right. I needed a little more drop than what the factory setting was. So I ended up ordering an aftermarket shim.

 

[Macintosh]

Jason and MacIntosh, thank you for the links. I'm still curious, what gun modifications have benefited you? Or have you found that proper training and factory standard gun stocks are perfect for you?

I’m 6’3” with a positive ape index, pencil neck, and a long face. Yeah, Im kinda funny looking. Means I need a longer, slightly higher stock than average, and I benefit from a slight monte carlo. Getting my LOP adjusted put most factory stocks much closer to my ideal, and allowed me to pretty easily be more consistent—I was then able to benefit much more from the practice and instruction I got. If you are more average-ish size this may not be as critical. After a bunch of instruction and practice I was then able to identify and make more refined changes, so starting with a stock that generally fit me reasonably well was a big step. Everyone has their own “bottleneck” in fit, some major and some minor—so theres no reason to think that my most impactful change will be helpful or necessary for anyone else.
Cast is also a big one, most American guns have neutral cast, and I have found on a field hunting gun most people benefit from a little cast.
Again, if you are pretty close, ie stock does not fit grossly wrong, modifications are probably less helpful than practice and a second set of eyes to help diagnose opportunities. At this point, I’d care more about consistency than exact fit, as an example of that, Beretta and Browning are two brands that fit somewhat differently on average—its not universal but Beretta’s off-the-shelf stocks tend to be a little longer, a little higher and with a little more cast. Most people will say they fit brownings and not Beretta’s, or vice versa. That means frequently mixing the two is often a recipe for inconsistency.

 

[Macintosh]

Also, I didnt mention but its actually the first, most important step— check for your eye dominance. If you are right handed with right eye dominant, all is good. If you have cross dominance or a weaker dominant eye that results in switching dominance in various situations, that is an issue you will need to address BEFORE dealing with your stock or really any of this.

 

[ArcherAnthony]

I’ve never fitted one to me. The most I’ve done is balance my Beretta 694 sporting. This made a big difference when throwing the gun up on my shoulder. Even with a 30” barrel it naturally points when I shoulder it.