First time trad bow questions

[Jproland]

I am moving away (or thinking I want too) the compound bows. I started reading and trying to figure out recurve bows. I really didn't think it would be as complicated as it seems!? Could someone help on a basic setup to learn on and shot does for a year or so? I am strong and want to shot a higher pound bow. A good basic recurve, arrows, broad heads and anything else I need to get started! Thanks for the help in advance!! Budget is really open but not wanting to drop a lot of coin as I am just trying the trad life out for a year or so. I don't have a store or anybody around to help me learn so will be over the internet.


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[sveltri]

For what sounds like more no than a one year commitment I would suggest a Samick Sage rc, they are fairly inexpensive and are good shooters. We're all strong, don't overbow yourself. Shoot for 9-11 gpp on your arrow setup and more weight upfront is a good thing. It sounds like you're looking for a comprehensive list of items to buy, the combinations that will work for you are endless and not enough info to provide a realistic suggestion. Once you decide on a bow and determine your draw length then you can work on the other elements. Hope that kinda helps.

 

[justinspicher]

Go to stickbow.com and look up Clay Hayes on YouTube.

 

[cocky84]

Ive been easing myself into trad bow for 3 years now. Im not expert by no means but ive recently been in your shoes and have researched alot of info. Imo you need to start at low poundage to get your form right and move up. 70lbs compound and 70lb recurve is not even comparable. For example, Aron Snyder shoots 80 and 90lb compound very well. He shoots a 50lb Hoyt buffalo recurve and kills elk with it. I would suggest a 50lb max no matter how strong you are. Just because of form and mechanics. Like said above the Samick Sage would be a good one and a Bear Grizzly would also be a good choice.

 

[Beendare]

Trad shooting is a process....there are few shortcuts. Start with a 50# recurve and your learning curve will be longer than if you start with 35#. Start light....and have an instructor show you proper form and you will wonder why so many struggle.

Form is so crucial with stickbows.....shooting light to begin with helps you develop that form faster. many guys start too heavy...then can't develop the form and get frustrated.

The sage is a good starter or you can get something like a Trad tech riser and cheap light weight $80 limbs....then buy nicer/heavier limbs later down the road.

 

[WoodBow]

I will give the opposite of what advice guys typically give. Skip the cheap stuff like the samick sage and buy a quality used bow like a bob lee hunter. A used recurve has already lost all the value it ever will. Bet on liking it. Save the trouble of upgrading later. I don't suggest buying a bow less than 50#s or heavier than 55 to start off, but I cut my teeth on 58 and it did not hurt me. I hear guys suggest starting with a super light bow all the time. You are not a child. Buy a mans bow and learn how to shoot it properly. I'm no expert but i shot trad exclusively for about 8 years and i learned a great deal in that amount of time. There is more to tuning and shooting than you might think. Feel free to pm me any time with questions.

 

[Felix40]

I'm going to be the odd man out here. If you are in fact strong and shoot a 70+ pound compound easily then you might as well start with a bow that you can eventually hunt with. Go 50-55 pounds at your draw length. Most bows are marked at 28". Every inch you gain or loose from there will add or subtract 3 lbs or so. If you draw 30 inches on a bow marked 50@28 then you are drawing somewhere around 56 lbs. Your draw length can be an inch shorter with a trad bow than with a compound. I would also suggest buying a decent bow rather than something like a sage if you can afford it. Just like everything else you get what you pay for. Look at eBay, the leatherwall, trad gang, and here for a decent used bow.

Woodbow beat me to it. I agree 100%. Start with a mans bow. I started with 50# when I was a scrawny 16 year old kid.

 

[Felix40]

May want to watch this as well.

The Push - A Traditional Archery Film - YouTube

 

[sveltri]

Be a man, snap shoot a heavy bow!

 

[WoodBow]

You can snap shoot a sissy bow too. Snap shooting has very little to do with bow weight and a lot to do with target panic. I started "heavy" and have never snap shot. Getting 50#s to full draw and holding it is not exactly a herculean feat. Most people pick up a recurve and have no idea they are even supposed to anchor. Watch some videos like the push mentioned above. Start with a good foundation of technique before you develop bad habits just winging it.

 

[justinspicher]

This thread got interesting quick. I started with a heavy bow as well. Shoot light bows horribly.

 

[sveltri]

You're right 50 isn't heavy but it's all relative. The OP doesn't have a coach or even a store he can go to for help. A heavier bow not drawn to its potential draw length is not necessarily more powerful than a bow drawn to a higher draw length. The OP needs to provide more info before anyone can make a real recommendation on gear.

 

[Felix40]

I just see recommendations for 35# cheap bows a lot and wanted to relay how happy I was to get a real bow at age 16 and kill a buck with it at 17. I'm sure I would have shot a sage for about a week and been ready to upgrade. Upgrading means going through the set up process all over again and includes new arrows and tuning. IMO a new shooter is better off going through the set up process once and having something that will perform well and be a joy to shoot. I think most men are totally capable of shooting a 50# bow with good form. Even if it's a struggle at first the muscles will develop within a couple weeks.

Op shoot me a pm if you want thoughts on any bows you find etc

 

[PJG]

Start with a light bow, even if its just for a month or two. Learn a good release, most people don't get a good release on a light bow simply because they have never learned a good release. Carrying too much tension in the string hand and foreman trying to pull back a bow that is too heavy takes you down a wrong road that will take months if not longer to correct. Think of the release hand as the rudder of a ship, the rudder steers the arrow, any time the rudder comes off the face or doesn't travel in a linear line then the arrow path will follow. The reason a heavier weight bow is easier to shoot is it forces the string out of the hand more linear as the bow poundage moves up.

The Samick line of bows is an extremely cheap way to get started that you can order replacement limbs for. You can work your way up in weight for a smaller cost than buying a new custom bow. Buying used is also a great way to get started, the worst thing about trad bows is the how addictive they are.

Search out a level III olympic coach in your area, or see if they have a JOAD program. The JOAD program is for kids, but most of the instructors are level II or III oly coaches. An olympic coach can speed up the learning and teach you where to increase tension (as in back tension) and where to decrease as in the string hand.

 

[Oz Bow]

Given that the OP is unsure that they want to commit longer term to traditional archery I'd suggest starting with a decent quality bow (that suits your budget), carbon shafts ie Gold Tip Hunters (a good lower budget option), don't worry about broadheads until your ready to commit and have your stuff together shooting field tips.

Tab or glove is a personal preference, get both and see which you settle with. They're cheap enough that you can do that sort of thing. Also an arm-guard.

As far as brand new bows go there are a range of options under $300 that aren't horrible. Buying used is a great suggestion. There are also some really good used buys across the spectrum of budgets. If you're in a position to try a number them out before buying, great

I would suggest a 3 piece takedown tghis will allow you to have a lighter and heaver limb set. Whilst Aron is now shooting a Buffalo @ 57 (for his draw length) he used a lower poundage bow to get his form and mechanics down correctly.

I believe he mentioned that he bridged up to his current weight, however you may want to confirm this.

I'll agree to disagree with the suggestions of jump right in and get a "mans" bow as this was the mistake I made.
The result was bad form, I was inaccurate and inconsistent. I persisted for quite a while with this (getting stronger in the relevant areas during this time) but found when I dropped back to to 50# my form was better and I was more accurate and consistent.

Any bow (compound, recurve & longbow etc) can be snap-shot/badly shot however being over-bowed will just further contribute to it and potentially ingrain habits which may be difficult to overcome later.

Whilst there's a lot of great information on the web for Trad there's also some lousy stuff. A good coach/mentor can go a long way with helping getting things right from the get go.

 

[Greg Beck]

I started with a 50# Sage and wish I had started with less . It's one thing to pull 50# once or twice but when trying learn on your own and get correct former it sucks!! I quit and sold my Sage because I wasn't seeing results! Wish I had just bought different limbs and stuck with it instead of giving up. Now looking to get back into traditional in the near future. Maybe I'm just weaker than the average guy but don't think that is the case.

 

[Beendare]

A mans bow....suit yourself....but thats funny. I agree with Oz.

i had the pleasure of shooting the 3D Trad Nationals with a group of guys that are arguably the best in the country and they get a good laugh at the guys shooting "Man bows" . Glad it worked out for that poster [or did it....we really don't know?]

One thing you will find with stickbows....they shoot better if you hold good form and aim. Right now with a 70# compound you are holding 14#.Its not that you can't pull 50#....its that you cannot have the fine motor control at full anchor to shoot it well. .....and thats the goal right?

So many of those guys shooting high #'s don't have anything close to good form and just "Snap Shoot" which is a nice way of saying they never get to full draw. A guy can kiil anything in north america with a 45# stickbow....even less really....no need to go too heavy.

A guy can recoup all but about $50 of his investment into a 30-35# Samick sage....then move up to a better bow with the benefit of trying a bunch along the way...Stickbows are even more peculiar than compounds...how do you know what the heck you want?

or a guy can get a cheap ILF riser and cheap light limbs....then upgrade limbs and mix and match.

 

[Oz Bow]

I probably should add that when I made the first made the switch to Trad the compound I was using a 70# PSE Phase 2, the recurve I got was a 55# Samick. The prevailing wisdom at the time, 1991, was that you generally drop about 15# from your compound weight. A lot of the mid/late 80s compounds were around 45% letoff around (from memory).

This was pre internet, not a lot of options for archery equipment in Australia and most definitely not a lot of Trad options. Combine that with some ego/machismo and an Archery Shop which was a bit old school in attitude and you have a slow progress curve.

If I had my time over, particularly given the options now available, I would have started at 25-30# and worked up.

I do still like compounds but I love recurves more

 

[elkstabber]

I've been shooting and hunting with recurves exclusively for about 15 years. It's been a fun and sometimes aggravating experience if you don't have a coach or knowledgeable traditional shooter near. I've successfully introduced several people to hunting with a recurve and they've stuck with it.

Here is what has worked for us: get a good used Bear, Martin, Bob Lee (Red Wing), or other bow with a relatively deep (pistol-type) of grip off of eBay. If you buy this time of year you can buy relatively cheap. I would suggest 45# if you're strong or maybe 50#. Shoot it and play with it this winter and next spring. Then, you'll have a good idea of what you like and can get a hunting bow in the spring/summer. You can sell your first bow in August on eBay and make a profit. Seriously, you should make a little bit at least because they sell for more in the summer.

For your arrows: shoot any arrows that you feel like when starting because your shooting form (mostly muscle memory) is the most important part of your practice. You shouldn't be worried about how accurate the arrows are because your form is the most important part.

When you want to shoot arrows accurately look up Stu Miller's Spine Calculator. Follow the instructions (its simple) and you'll get arrows that are VERY CLOSE to perfect for your bow. Using the Calculator you can play with variables like string type, silencers, point weight, etc.

As other have said a traditional bow shoots a heavier arrow very efficiently. I would suggest 10-12gpp (grains per pound). So if you're shooting a 50# bow your arrows should weight 500 - 600 grains. These arrows will shoot smoothly, quietly, and be easier to tune than lighter arrows.

You haven't given us much detail about you or your preferences, or even where you live. But I've noticed that traditional shooters generally fall into two categories and hope no one gets made about the "profiling" that I'm about to do. So, here goes.

The first category uses the most modern bow, a tab, stands upright, keeps the bow upright, might use a clicker (or some other draw check), and aims by a point of aim style of aiming. By controlling the most variables this shooter will achieve superior accuracy. Think Olympic shooters as a good example. Read Anthony Camera's "Shooting the Stickbow" book.

The second category uses any bow, a glove, stands comfortably, cants the bow over 20 degrees, and uses no other aiming devices. With more variables it's critical that this shooter develops a familiar muscle memory to draw the string and anchor consistently each time. This shooter uses a more "instinctive" aiming method, and will probably not achieve the accuracy of the first type of shooter. But this method lends itself more readily in hunting situations. Read G. Fred Asbell's "Instinctive Shooting II".

Now, Jproland, if you'll tell us more about yourself and your preferences we can maybe help you further.

 

[elkstabber]

I just reread your question. You said you wanted to just shoot does for a year. First, be aware that shooting does is harder than shooting bucks. At least to me, they are always more wary. Bucks screw up more often.

Anyhow, if you are hunting deer with a recurve 45-50# and the arrow weighs at least 500 grains you should expect full pass throughs. I would suggest a solid 3 blade VPA or Wensel Woodsman broadhead. I bought a 3 pack and shot over a dozen deer and elk with them. They are tough and can be easily resharpened so they will last as long as you don't lose them.