First Swarovski questions…

[Goneoutdoors]

A Layman’s explanation = Rolling Ball Effect is the term used to refer to the visual image characteristics generated by the differences in distortion and curvature between the image created by the optical instrument vs the natural distortion and curvature of the human visual system. This effect is most noticeable in extreme flat-field systems when panning, as the lack of pin-cushion and edge distortion can give the user the appearance of a concave, rolling edge of the image. This effect varies among individuals (as everyone’s eyes are a bit different) and can cause the sensation of motion sickness in some. This effect is associated with EL SV binoculars, so it is strongly recommended to try before buying.

On a personal note - I own and have owned many alpha and near alpha binoculars and really do not find extreme flat-field optics a significant advantage in the field. As far as Swarovskis go - the SLCs have a sufficiently wide sweet-spot, they are optically fantastic, are smaller/lighter and IMO handle much better than the ELs. I still have 10x42s, but regret having sold my 8x42 SLC as it is a great eastern deer hunting glass.

 

[Goneoutdoors]

I do wonder about the rolling ball effect..makes me want to learn towards the slc.

 

[CorbLand]

I do wonder about the rolling ball effect..makes me want to learn towards the slc.

If you can’t look through both before hand, SLCs may be the safer bet. That rolling effect can really get you. They are worthless if you can’t stand to look through them.

I noticed you posted a WTB ad. Be careful with those, they are magnets for scammers. Report anything that looks fishy. They are good with photoshop so notes with names are all but worthless. Take precautions.

 

[roosiebull]

A Layman’s explanation = Rolling Ball Effect is the term used to refer to the visual image characteristics generated by the differences in distortion and curvature between the image created by the optical instrument vs the natural distortion and curvature of the human visual system. This effect is most noticeable in extreme flat-field systems when panning, as the lack of pin-cushion and edge distortion can give the user the appearance of a concave, rolling edge of the image. This effect varies among individuals (as everyone’s eyes are a bit different) and can cause the sensation of motion sickness in some. This effect is associated with EL SV binoculars, so it is strongly recommended to try before buying.

On a personal note - I own and have owned many alpha and near alpha binoculars and really do not find extreme flat-field optics a significant advantage in the field. As far as Swarovskis go - the SLCs have a sufficiently wide sweet-spot, they are optically fantastic, are smaller/lighter and IMO handle much better than the ELs. I still have 10x42s, but regret having sold my 8x42 SLC as it is a great eastern deer hunting glass.

Great informative and accurate reply

I’m glad I don’t get the rolling ball effect from EL or NL, but you are right, some can’t really use them, and SLC are no slouch, and are a great lightweight optic… I would be perfectly content if I “had” to use slc’s forever, they are awesome binos

 

[Matt G.]

I went to the local cabelas to try the Els before buying. I had no issue in store and picked up some 8.5x42 els out of the classified. The problem now is using anything of less quality bothers my eyes.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[Goneoutdoors]

I found a pair of 10 x 42 EL in almost like new condition. It looks to be a 2014 model. Do some of those “older “models have a less of the rolling ball effect from what I read?

 

[Spiral Horn]

I found a pair of 10 x 42 EL in almost like new condition. It looks to be a 2014 model. Do some of those “older “models have a less of the rolling ball effect from what I read?

Since this is the internet, there will likely be pro and con responses to any question posed and often from folks with little or no specific experience. Unfortunately, many responses just “parrot“ what they’ve read here, older threads, and other BBs. Also factor in that there is a huge Swarovski fan-base here on Rokslide.

Your previous posts in this thread tend to indicate that you’ve decided a Swarovski EL is the best binocular for hunting eastern Whitetails and are looking for reassurance. They are a solid binocular, but don’t know how you arrived there; and, many (me included) would likely be reaching for something else for the eastern deer woods. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to accurately predict how well the EL will fit your eyes and preferences and it will take some time with them to figure that out. To answer your question directly = the EL has long been associated with rolling ball effect throughout its history; however, the newer SV versions have anecdotally been attributed to generate this effect in a greater number of users. However, I don’t know of any in-depth studies for numbers of people affected or severity of impact. (Just like some people will get seasick to various degrees, but you won’t know until going out on the water). For me personally - I’ve sampled various EL models over the years - on a tripod to slowly pick apart a distant landscape, they are crisp and sharp with no issues; but handheld and scanning for a while makes me feel uneasy. Some others have no issues and absolutely love them.

This is a big investment, and hunting season is quite a while from now. Why the rush? A binocular is portable optical system, and enjoyment is determined by much more than just the brand name and spec sheet. For example, I find the view from my 10x56 SLCs absolutely stunning, and in low light they are almost peerless. But folks probably won’t find me lugging them through the deer woods. My point is - Think most folks are better served taking their time and sampling a number of binoculars prior to buying to determine personal preferences and identify binocular models that best suit them.

 

[WRO]

Since this is the internet, there will likely be pro and con responses to any question posed and often from folks with little or no specific experience. Unfortunately, many responses just “parrot“ what they’ve read here, older threads, and other BBs. Also factor in that there is a huge Swarovski fan-base here on Rokslide.

Your previous posts in this thread tend to indicate that you’ve decided a Swarovski EL is the best binocular for hunting eastern Whitetails and are looking for reassurance. They are a solid binocular, but don’t know how you arrived there; and, many (me included) would likely be reaching for something else for the eastern deer woods. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to accurately predict how well the EL will fit your eyes and preferences and it will take some time with them to figure that out. To answer your question directly = the EL has long been associated with rolling ball effect throughout its history; however, the newer SV versions have anecdotally been attributed to generate this effect in a greater number of users. However, I don’t know of any in-depth studies for numbers of people affected or severity of impact. (Just like some people will get seasick to various degrees, but you won’t know until going out on the water). For me personally - I’ve sampled various EL models over the years - on a tripod to slowly pick apart a distant landscape, they are crisp and sharp with no issues; but handheld and scanning for a while makes me feel uneasy. Some others have no issues and absolutely love them.

It started at the SV's, it's associated with field flattening lenses and can occur in any glasses with field flattening lenses.

The rolling ball effect is much less noted in real life than on the internet.

 

[BBob]

In my extended and quite experienced group of glassers not a one has ever had an issue with the rolling ball effect. I have a feeling if that term was never uttered or discussed there'd be a whole lot of people that would never even know it existed let alone be bothered by it. NL's IMO have virtually zero rolling ball, I can't imagine anyone having trouble with it with them.

 

[Browninglover1]

In my extended and quite experienced group of glassers not a one has ever had an issue with the rolling ball effect. I have a feeling if that term was never uttered or discussed there'd be a whole lot of people that would never even know it existed let alone be bothered by it. NL's IMO have virtually zero rolling ball, I can't imagine anyone having trouble with it with them.

I agree with zero rolling ball on any of the NL's I've looked thru. I did look thru one set of 10x42 EL that made me sea sick almost immediately. I'm assuming that was the rolling ball effect but I've never had that problem looking thru any other EL since so I'm wondering if they were out of collimation?

 

[BBob]

I found a pair of 10 x 42 EL in almost like new condition. It looks to be a 2014 model. Do some of those “older “models have a less of the rolling ball effect from what I read?

Swarovision (field flattening optics) were introduced in I believe 2010. Prior to that they had virtually no rolling ball effect, the 2014's probably do. Someone else can correct my info if I'm mistaken on dates.

I still own first gen EL's, they are a very good binocular IMO.

 

[tdhanses]

It started at the SV's, it's associated with field flattening lenses and can occur in any glasses with field flattening lenses.

The rolling ball effect is much less noted in real life than on the internet.

When I had the SV’s I kept hearing about it but it never was an issue for me.

 

[WRO]

When I had the SV’s I kept hearing about it but it never was an issue for me.

The 32 mm objective were the ones people noted it the most in.

I haven't heard of guys getting it with the NL's.

There were guys having issues with the SF's, a lot of the high end glass now has field flatteners. Nikon was actually first to the market with the technology.

BTW in trying to look up the model, I noticed they had released the WX.. Has anyone here looked through a set?

 

[Spiral Horn]

There is quite a bit of misinformation all over the internet on ”rolling ball“ and ”globe effect,“ including those denying its existance. Linked below are several papers on the topic published by Holger Merlitz, well-respected Scientific Researcher and Computational Physicist, who has devoted quite a bit of time and study to the topic. The first article has a lot of math and technical discussion but one can follow it. Bottom line is the human visual interface often experiences effects and challenges in absorbing a completely distortion free image. The 2nd discusses how globe effect began showing up in an increasing number of more modern designs (especially the EL SV) and shows how the Zeiss Victory SF was purposefully designed to include a targeted minimum amount of distortion to prevent users from experiencing these effects.

1st = Distortion and Globe Effect in Binoculars
http://holgermerlitz.de/globe/distortion.html

2nd = Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binoculat market?

Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binocular market?

 

[BBob]

I don't deny it's existence I just think it's overblown is all. People tend to glom on to ideas and let it influence them more than it should. We see it in all kinds of things. It's a hard thing to detach and be truly objective to your own experience.

 

[tdhanses]

There is quite a bit of misinformation all over the internet on ”rolling ball“ and ”globe effect,“ including those denying its existance. Linked below are several papers on the topic published by Holger Merlitz, well-respected Scientific Researcher and Computational Physicist, who has devoted quite a bit of time and study to the topic. The first article has a lot of math and technical discussion but one can follow it. Bottom line is the human visual interface often experiences effects and challenges in absorbing a completely distortion free image. The 2nd discusses how globe effect began showing up in an increasing number of more modern designs (especially the EL SV) and shows how the Zeiss Victory SF was purposefully designed to include a targeted minimum amount of distortion to prevent users from experiencing these effects.

1st = Distortion and Globe Effect in Binoculars
http://holgermerlitz.de/globe/distortion.html

2nd = Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binoculat market?

Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binocular market?

I don’t think anyone has denied it, just for me it wasn’t an issue.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Not trying to impugn anyone. Just want to show that someone has done in depth scientific studies and concluded the EL SV is the binocular most likely to induce this phenom with users. Know that many folks don’t suffer these effects and love their ELs (they were a revolutionary design that changed the whole industry). But a new guy should sample them prior to buying. Personally wanted to love the ELs and initially set out to buy a set based on all the glowing reviews. But after a lot of direct comparison found some others worked better for me. $2k is a big purchase and there are many fantastic options at that price.

My 2 cents. Will leave it alone now.

 

[OutdoorsMD]

I have owned SLC, EL, and NLs primary 10x42, 8x32. I now own the NL 8x32 and 10x42. I dont think you can beat an 8x32 for eastern whitetail or timber hunting. The field of view is amazing on the NL but honestly I think the form factor is better in the EL 8x32 and would be what I would be looking for if I had to get only one pair for eastern hunting. With regards to the rolling ball or globe effect, which fortunately I have not experienced, you wont know until you spend some time panning behind them.

 

[Jbird1]

Having owned both EL‘s and SLV‘s, I give a slight edge to the EL‘s. Between myself and my small group of friends with good glass, none of us have experienced the rolling ball affect. For what it’s worth, I’ve had great success purchasing used off of this forum and would highly suggest other first-time buyers do so as well. Even the older Swaro glass is so damn good compared to more budget-friendly glass I really don’t see how you can go wrong as long as you find an honest seller (which has never been a problem for me when dealing with fellow Roksliders). Just my opinion though…

 

[fatrascal]

I started out with the first gen el's and loved them until I got the second gen el's with field flattener lenses which I loved even more. I now have the 2020 version of the el ranges (not the newest el ranges) and like them a lot but prefer the el sv's. I never experienced the rolling ball effect but would like to just so I know what it is. Recently I looked through the NL's and I believe they are the best of the best. Still I do not know what the rolling ball effect is through experience. But I will watch the information that Spiral Horn has provided to try and figure it out. By all means try and look through different binos before buying them. Just because I like a certain bino doesn't mean you will like them. Heck, I think a Dodge Cummins is the best truck ever made but you might like a Ford or Chevy. Fatrascal.