Finally bit the bullet

[Lawnboi]

The collet die, which essentially pinches the neck between a mandrel and a collet, seems to have worked. I only tested one piece, but it went in smoother, and without the hitch it had before. Must have smoothed out the neck just enough.

That said I’m just going to keep on shooting the hornady brass. I still have a bunch that I havnt even sized yet, total around 500 pieces, so might as well.

I also got some 60 tmk, for an around home coyote round, shots will be shorter back home, doubt I’ll be doing anything over 300, so I’ll take a little flatter, faster bullet and give it a go. Even at 60 grains, the tmk still has a .323 BC which is still really good even compared to some of the hpbt bullets I was running. I’ll probably go ahead and fire form my Lapua brass with these as well since they were only 18 cents a bullet.

Its getting to be go time for 6.5CM as well. Hopefully Mike at hella canyon armory can get me back my hunting tikka here sooner than later, otherwise come mid September I’ll be working up a hunting round for my steel ctr.

 

[Lawnboi]

Been keeping busy. Had an issue with my 6.5cm seater, sent it off to Wilson. Excellent customer service, it was fixed and back in less than a week, they threw in a hat too.

Time to work up a copy load of of the Berger 140 hybrids. Almost done with brass prep, what a difference Lapua brass makes even in prep. Brass prep for steel matches is no fun, need to have 120 loaded rounds ready for October.

Going all in on the 77tmk train as I don’t want to carry my match rifle, and my carbon tikka is not back yet. Mule deer and whitetail 400yds max hopefully it goes well.

 

[wind gypsy]

Did you ever figure out the issue with virgin Lapua brass? I'm having basically the same issue..

I finally gave in and I picked up a new T3x lite 8 twist 223 to get some cheaper volume shooting in with a hunting weight rifle. I did basically the same thing as you - used an expander mandrel on virgin lapua brass to set neck tension, ran it through the giraud to chamfer/deburr and primed, charged, seated. 75 ELDs took a ton of seating pressure to get seated. The bullets weren't notably deformed but there just shouldn't be that much seating pressure.

Just put the first 25 rounds down range today (3 different charges of 8208xbr) and the results were ugly. I also noticed that every case neck was dented by the time it got ejected. Like the extractor was pushing them too hard against the receiver on the way out and denting them.

Got a good stash of 77 TMKs to try if the ELDs dont pan out too.

 

[Lawnboi]

@wind gypsy

Re virgin Lapua. I posed the same question over on snipers hide and was recommended a collet die to work the neck a bit. It’s not a neck tension issue, just a super grippy brass issue, so I expand, run the lee collet and expand again, then they seem to seat okay. Same with my creedmoor virgin brass, had to order a lee collet or deal with the ring for the first firing. I guess the idea behind it is that is squishes the neck hard enough that it’s not as grippy? Dunno but it worked better than straight expanding. I treat the first firing in Lapua brass as kind of sacrificial now. After the first it’s smooth sailing.

My tikka 223 dents case necks if I give it hard. They all get a mandrel before seating bullets.

I still have so much Hornady brass, I’m working on burning that up first. In April I’m taking my 223 to get coated, chopped (can’t decide 18 or 20) and threaded for a can I’m waiting on for it. After that I need to see what I can get for speed out of 77 tmk and xbr as I have an 8lb jug of it.

In my tikka the eld liked to be right on the lands. 77tmk dosnt matter where it just shoots.

I havnt updated this thread much but an annealer is now number one on my list of things to get, I’m thinking of trying the Annie induction annealer a little later in spring.

Match season is going to be starting up here soon as well so I’ll be busy.

You can also get replacement ejector hardware and try shaving off some coils on the ejector, I was thinking about that but didn’t bother yet.

 

[Lawnboi]

Still learning.... different pressures cases don’t size the same. Had 10 cases that were pretty hot, light ejector mark and a stiff lift, they all got junked, but sizing them at the same setting as the rest resulted in a case that would barely chamber. Didn’t realize that brass had that much spring back when sizing. Will be keeping a little closer on on consecutively fired brass now.

Finally some brass fire formed for my carbon tikka, now time to work up a 124 hammer hunter load.

 

[OutdoorAg]

Still learning.... different pressures cases don’t size the same. Had 10 cases that were pretty hot, light ejector mark and a stiff lift, they all got junked, but sizing them at the same setting as the rest resulted in a case that would barely chamber. Didn’t realize that brass had that much spring back when sizing. Will be keeping a little closer on on consecutively fired brass now.

Finally some brass fire formed for my carbon tikka, now time to work up a 124 hammer hunter load.

Do you have pin gauges to measure neck tension ? Or how are you determining what neck tension you have? Solely off the mandrel you’re using?

 

[Lawnboi]

Do you have pin gauges to measure neck tension ? Or how are you determining what neck tension you have? Solely off the mandrel you’re using?

Im sizing with a bushing die, that is .003 less than bullet and case neck thickness, trying to account for .001 spring back. I then run my turning mandrel through the cases, most take very little effort. This is .002 less than bullet diameter.

On virgin brass I just expanded and measured before and after seating a bullet.

Pin gauges would be nice, but when it’s taking little to nothing to pass a Turning mandrel I’m sort of using that as a pin gauge and hopefully straightening out any flaws in the neck.

 

[OutdoorAg]

Pin gauges would be nice, but when it’s taking little to nothing to pass a Turning mandrel I’m sort of using that as a pin gauge

Little to noting isn’t a measurement.

I’m just saying...I’ve enjoyed this thread for all the effort put and process (and money!) that has gone into your reload workflow. But, with all the tools you have for precision, you simply can’t assume neck tension based off a bushing/mandrel and a “feel like nothing” assessment of the mandrel process.

To truly measure your neck tension, get a set of pins. Maybe 3 or 4 thou up and down. Then you’ll know more. You’ll be able to assess your reload pieces and how they interact with the brass you’re using and your brass prep.

Imo, not having pins (if you’re chasing tension consistency like you are) to confirm final tension is the equivalent of having a powder scale that doesn’t have a tenth scale. Just 50, 51, 52gr, etc.

Pins can tell you about your brass necks. If your bushings are good, if your brass is soft/hard, spring back, and final tension.

 

[Lawnboi]

Little to noting isn’t a measurement.

I’m just saying...I’ve enjoyed this thread for all the effort put and process (and money!) that has gone into your reload workflow. But, with all the tools you have for precision, you simply can’t assume neck tension based off a bushing/mandrel and a “feel like nothing” assessment of the mandrel process.

To truly measure your neck tension, get a set of pins. Maybe 3 or 4 thou up and down. Then you’ll know more. You’ll be able to assess your reload pieces and how they interact with the brass you’re using and your brass prep.

Imo, not having pins (if you’re chasing tension consistency like you are) to confirm final tension is the equivalent of having a powder scale that doesn’t have a tenth scale. Just 50, 51, 52gr, etc.

Pins can tell you about your brass necks. If your bushings are good, if your brass is soft/hard, spring back, and final tension.

Makes sense. Iv only seen k&m making pin gauges. Anyone else doing this?

 

[OutdoorAg]

Makes sense. Iv only seen k&m making pin gauges. Anyone else doing this?

MATCH GRADE - Case Mouth and Neck Tension Gage 6.0 / .243 / 6.5 / .264

Match Case mouth gauge or gage for determining neck tension of 6mm BR, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, 6mm Dasher etc. Match grade.

ballistictools.com

They make a 223 as well as others

 

[OutdoorAg]

Makes sense. Iv only seen k&m making pin gauges. Anyone else doing this?

I should mention gageshop as well. Sell ZZ and Z pins. The ZZ under $4/pin. Buy one in .001, .002, and .003 thou under caliber and you’ll have an easy way to check neck tension and spring back.

 

[Lawnboi]

Thanks @OutdoorAg

Makes sense that neck tension would change too with consecutive firings and spring back. Seems like consistent spring back is a reason many anneal. An an Annealer is the next piece of reloading equipment I’ll be spending money on. Along with some pin gauges. Should be easy being I only reload 223 and 6.5 right now

 

[OutdoorAg]

Thanks @OutdoorAg

Makes sense that neck tension would change too with consecutive firings and spring back. Seems like consistent spring back is a reason many anneal. An an Annealer is the next piece of reloading equipment I’ll be spending money on. Along with some pin gauges. Should be easy being I only reload 223 and 6.5 right now

Yep, anneal if you want consistent neck tension. I think trying to control neck tension without annealing will just drive you crazy.

Let me know what annealer you go with. Going to splurge for the AMP?

 

[Lawnboi]

Yep, anneal if you want consistent neck tension. I think trying to control neck tension without annealing will just drive you crazy.

Let me know what annealer you go with. Going to splurge for the AMP?

The amp is out of reach for me. I plan to try the Annie.

I’m now loading for a few buddies th at are going to chip in as well.

I don’t like the idea of flame annealing at all. Seems like it could vary so much.

 

[Trippy]

I plan to try the Annie.

Water cooled or no? Reason for or against if you don't mind.

 

[Lawnboi]

Water cooled or no? Reason for or against if you don't mind.

Without a doubt I’d do the water cooled bundle. Shooting matches it’s not uncommon for me to load 150-200 rounds at a time so I don’t want to have to worry about overheating or variation in the brass.

 

[Trippy]

Without a doubt I’d do the water cooled bundle. Shooting matches it’s not uncommon for me to load 150-200 rounds at a time so I don’t want to have to worry about overheating or variation in the brass.

Use their water recirculator or have something else in mind?

 

[Lawnboi]

Use their water recirculator or have something else in mind?

I’m just going to order their bundle.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ll try to keep this thread updated as things move along as well. Been slacking a bit on keeping up with stuff. Since starting it I moved into a house, instead of an apartment and now it’s time to make an actual bench and quit using a portable setup.

 

[Trippy]

I’m just going to order their bundle.

Thanks for sharing. Be interested in hearing/seeing how this works out for you. I've only read about people thinking of doing it although I haven't looked real hard.