Few Final Suppressor Questions

[bonepoint]

I have read several suppressor threads on here and tried to pick up as much as I can from previous questions, but had a few questions before a wanted to make a purchase. There is some good experience on here.

I am planning on getting a 7 PRC Fierce Rogue Carbon in 20" set up as a lightweight elk hunting rifle out to 700 yards. The local gun shop is well respected on matching up suppressors to the rifle and can get about anything, and they are recommending a Q Thunder Chicken. His reasoning was that it is enough can for a magnum yet light enough for hunting. He has gotten really good results and feedback from people that have purchased them, and he has seen very good results on them not shifting the POI as much as others. He said some of the newer ones may be better, but he hasn't seen enough of a track record to yet recommend them over the Thunder Chicken.

I really don't see much mention of the Thunder Chicken on here. It does seem pretty big and heavy compared to other TI cans. I will say that I really don't want to go with the very lightest/smallest ones because I do want a good level of suppression & recoil reduction for a magnum. Yes, I do want light and I know that means paying more for TI if you want both, which I am willing to do.

It doesn't appear that all manufacturers use common noise reduction methods.

In looking at similar sized cans, how does the Thunder Chicken compare to the AB 8 or Ultra 7? Those two are both lighter, and would go that route if suppression was as good or better.

The Thunder Chicken and a few others have built in brakes. I am assuming this would reduce recoil over other others, but bump up noise?

I also find the various mounting systems confusing. Is any style the obvious choice for the carbon barrel? Is the big difference just trying to reduce POI shift?

Thanks for the help.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

You may be able to find what you're looking for here:

https://pewscience.com/suppressorrankings

Mounting system depends on the threading of your barrel (if threaded already) vs. the suppressor threading. For example, I had my Ruger American cut down to 16.5" and threaded. I was hoping they could do 5/8-24 to match the suppressor i bought, but there wasn't enough steel on the barrel even when cut back. As a result, per the suppressor manufacturer, I had them thread the barrel 1/2-28 and bought a 1/2-28 muzzle device (brake) that direct threads to the suppressor. The other option would've been to get a new adapter for the suppressor with 1/2-28 threads. However, I have a couple other rifles that are threaded 1/2-28 already, so I can swap the muzzle device to them so I can run the suppressor on them as well.

 

[hereinaz]

Look here for straight up comparison by many manufacturers with the same exact measuring system. https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2023/

Your dealer isn't lying to you, pretty much everyone that gets a suppressor loves it. And, because we are stuck with a suppressor in the unique situation getting the stamp, we kinda start lying to ourselves about how awesome it is and what a good choice it is. But, many like me, who start with a steel suppressor do eventually buy a titanium one.

I would never recommend steel over titanium unless it will be a high use, high volume, rapid fire, tactical sort of situation. Hunters, I don't think shoot enough total volume or the number of consecutive shots to warrant the benefits of steel. If someone doesn't have the budget, I would recommend one of the suppressors that use aluminum to cut weight and can cost less than the steel/Inconel suppressors.

The brake inside of a suppressor doesn't really change recoil or noise appreciably, from my experience. It might a little bit but I can't tell with my braked suppressor. What the internal brake can do is be a QD connection and the brake baffles helps slow down the gasses and redirect some unburned powders before they hit the first baffle of the blast chamber that experiences the most erosion from unburned powders. Some suppressors require the brake for larger calibers and short barrels, at least my YHM Nitro 30 does, not sure about others. But, a suppressor appropriately sized to a magnum shouldn't need it. Check with the suppressor company to see what is approved/recommended.

You basically want as big a suppressor as you are willing to live with to reduce the sound as much as possible. Some suppressors quiet a magnum so your ears don't ring all day and reduce permanent damage, but it remains unpleasant and just less damaging. Other suppressors will get it much lower so that it is equal to a loud noise, but it still not "hearing safe." That's where most hunters want to get so they don't have to wear ear protection.

I still try to get ear pro in, and many times we are shooting at a bedded or feeding animal that doesn't know we are watching, so I have time. But, if I had to make a quick shot I know my ears won't ring and I won't get that "pinch" of pain. Damage will be less than going to a rock concert.

Another thing to realize about a shot is that besides the "sound" waves we hear, our bodies, brains, and ear drums are getting pounded by the concussive blast wave. A suppressor is really the only way to cut down that concussive blast wave. Many shooters say that the suppressor improved the precision of the rifle and they started shooting smaller groups. It is very possible that it changes "barrel harmonics", but in my opinion rifles shoot better with a suppressor because it changes the shooter's experience drastically. Either the shooter isn't flinching as hard from the concussive blast from the brake, or it tames the recoil if the rifle didn't have a brake.

The 7 PRC will have a lot of expanding gasses, and if you imagine the suppressor baffles and interior spaces slowing down that expanding/burning gas, that is how a suppressor reduces the noise and blast. Shooting a .223 with a suppressor built for a .338 is crazy quiet because of the mismatch between the amount of expanding gasses and the voluminous interior of the suppressor.

IMO, don't get a QD connector/brake for a hunting rifle suppressor unless you are going to be swapping it like a madman at the range between a bunch of rifles and you will be shooting with and without the suppressor. Hunters aren't going to be swapping out the suppressor with an oven mitt to another host and continue blasting. There is no utility for the QD brake for hunting rifles, IMO and it only adds weight with the brake and the rear portion of the suppressor that is beefier to accept it. Also, some suppressors will add length using the system. I use a QD system with my ARs because that was how I bought my first suppressor and it works. But, after running that for a couple years, I bought and run a direct thread TBAC Ultra 7 on my hunting rifles. I just swap it between rifles and move a thread protector to the empty rifle.

Don't worry about POI shift putting the suppressor on. Just never shoot it unsuppressed. If you have to take it off for some reason, then just rezero it for that. Also, in most ballistic apps, you can clone your ballistic profile for the bullet/velocity zeroed with your suppressor. Rename the cloned profile "NOS" for no suppressor, and then enter the zero offset for elevation and windage. The ballistic calculators can take that offset into account and will tell you how to dial for every range to compensate for the lack of the suppressor.

As for the POI shift, most suppressors will change the POI when you put it on, but it will be quite repeatable. In fact, as many times as I take it off, put it on and shoot, take it off, put it on and shoot, my zero doesn't change. Its not guaranteed, but that is the experience of most I know of. That's why I just zero to my suppressor and really never ever shoot my rifles without it.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Q had more buzz around them before everyone found out their founder/owner was a jerk. He kept trashing other manufacturers like TBAC publicly calling their mounting systems garbage essentially because of the threads being forward of the taper on the CB mount if I recall right. Then he had that weird feud with Bartlein causing them to stop making barrels for the Q Fix rifles. Bartlein hates him so much I legit got a free barrel from Tracy Bartlein himself years ago on Facebook for mentioning that the owner of Q is a prick (never interacted with Bartlein before that). Even on an individual level he never seemed like a pleasant person back when he was posting on SH.

There are a lot of stand up suppressor companies and given Q's suppressors aren't even the best ones around I just don't see a reason to go with them. You should check out the Silencer Summit that @hereinaz linked and see what you like.

 

[fwafwow]

You basically want as big a suppressor as you are willing to live with to reduce the sound as much as possible. Some suppressors quiet a magnum so your ears don't ring all day and reduce permanent damage, but it remains unpleasant and just less damaging. Other suppressors will get it much lower so that it is equal to a loud noise, but it still not "hearing safe." That's where most hunters want to get so they don't have to wear ear protection.

I still try to get ear pro in, and many times we are shooting at a bedded or feeding animal that doesn't know we are watching, so I have time. But, if I had to make a quick shot I know my ears won't ring and I won't get that "pinch" of pain. Damage will be less than going to a rock concert.

Well said above, and I agree with all you wrote but want to emphasize your point that if the setup isn’t hearing safe, you should still try very hard to wear ear pro. I don’t think you are suggesting this, but there is no “it’s just one shot” exception for permanent damage. At least a suppressed rifle that isn’t “hearing safe” is much better than one that isn’t suppressed at all, and is much better than one that has a muzzle brake.

And I think you can get to hearing safe with some cans and calibers.

Don't worry about POI shift putting the suppressor on. Just never shoot it unsuppressed.

^^^this. Once you shoot suppressed, you won’t go back.

 

[JohnJohnson]

^^^this. Once you shoot suppressed, you won’t go back.

To emphasize this point, I think it's extremely weird your dealer recommends the Thunder Chicken for that reason because when exactly are you going to be shooting unsuppressed once you get it? And even if there is POI shift, if it's repeatable and you know what it is why would that prevent you from compensating for it when shooting unsuppressed (which you 99.99% won't do anyway)? That's a very stupid thing to be basing suppressor recommendations on.

 

[hereinaz]

Well said above, and I agree with all you wrote but want to emphasize your point that if the setup isn’t hearing safe, you should still try very hard to wear ear pro. I don’t think you are suggesting this, but there is no “it’s just one shot” exception for permanent damage. At least a suppressed rifle that isn’t “hearing safe” is much better than one that isn’t suppressed at all, and is much better than one that has a muzzle brake.

And I think you can get to hearing safe with some cans and calibers.

^^^this. Once you shoot suppressed, you won’t go back.

Agreed, your ears won't bleed when you switch to a suppressor instead of a brake, but that doesn't mean it is hearing safe. Permanent damage is cumulative so don't neglect your hearing.

@JohnJohnson I was trying to say maybe he was stupid without saying he was stupid. Maybe the dealer doesn't have the same experience with suppressed hunting and it was his best advice, heaven knows gun counters are full of them. But, the skeptic in me wonders if he wasn't trying to sell the suppressor with the biggest profit margin. Either way, I don't know of any shooter who is primarily a hunter who has both and would choose to use and carry a steel QD mount instead of the titanium direct thread. And, I don't know of anyone in my small circle who has purchased a titanium first and then decided to buy a steel one. The rationale for a steel suppressor just doesn't exist for hunters. Its not wrong to buy steel, and I loved mine and used it, but it would only be some unique personal preference and budget.

I don't really care about rifle and cartridge choices much, but they are not a lifetime decision like buying a suppressor that you have to wait a year for and can't easily sell. So, I get a little excited when it looks like someone is getting steered the wrong direction for a suppressor purchase.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I was trying to say maybe he was stupid without saying he was stupid.

I may have said the quiet part out loud. If that's truly what the guy said it's a reason to discount his opinion on the whole subject.

 

[Tl15]

I run Dead Air on my rifles. Nomad-TI on my standard chamberings, and the Nomad-LT on my magnums. I direct thread on all my bolt guns, so QD is a non-factor. They work beautifully, are super light, and offer top notch suppression. The only can I’d consider over the Titanium Nomads is the SilencerCo Scythe-Ti but just doesn’t make sense for me to buy a 3rd 30 cal suppressor. Nothing else on the market offers as well rounded a package at the moment.

 

[fwafwow]

Sorry for the sidetrack, but this thread is making me want to put in for another suppressor.

 

[hereinaz]

Sorry for the sidetrack, but this thread is making me want to put in for another suppressor.

Me too!

 

[JohnJohnson]

Me too!

I have a list of some things I need to get before another suppressor but man the Magnus tempts me to do something stupid sometimes.

 

[fwafwow]

Me too!

I’m looking into it. To the point about the mounts issue, I’m running a TBAC Ultra 9 (gen 1) using their CB adapter on 3, soon to be 4, rifles. I need to figure out to what extent I’m tied to that adapter. Another can would be cool, and ideally lighter but still hearing safe for 223 and 6.5.

 

[hereinaz]

I’m looking into it. To the point about the mounts issue, I’m running a TBAC Ultra 9 (gen 1) using their CB adapter on 3, soon to be 4, rifles. I need to figure out to what extent I’m tied to that adapter. Another can would be cool, and ideally lighter but still hearing safe for 223 and 6.5.

Boy, I don’t know. I wonder what exists to retrofit. I just checked the box for direct thread cause I knew that is what I wanted.

Is that a version that you can screw on a direct thread adapter?
Did TBAC use what is now a standard thread for the back end?

I would call TBAC and see what they might be able to do to get it to something you want. Might be able to do a retrofit, especially if you are buying another suppressor from them.

Do you want to go direct thread?

I really like my Ultra 7. Don’t know about hearing safe though. I always wear ear pro so could not say.

I know the back end of my YHM Nitro 30 is proprietary, but the Resonator went to what I think is the standard back end thread for more flexiblility on mount choice. The QD stayed the same YHM but it’s the threads in the body of the suppressor. Don’t know all the jargon, don’t need to…

 

[Reburn]

Sorry for the sidetrack, but this thread is making me want to put in for another suppressor.

Is 10 too many?
Asking for a friend.

 

[fwafwow]

Is 10 too many?
Asking for a friend.

The following thoughts crossed my a friend's mind: that moving the can from one rifle to another is so taxing; and each "naked" rifle feels undervalued and should have its own can.

 

[Reburn]

The following thoughts crossed my a friend's mind: that moving the can from one rifle to another is so taxing; and each "naked" rifle feels undervalued and should have its own can.

 

[fwafwow]

Boy, I don’t know. I wonder what exists to retrofit. I just checked the box for direct thread cause I knew that is what I wanted.

Spoiler alert - it is 90+% likely I will hit the "easy button" and go with another TBAC.

I could not go with a direct thread mount on my first two rifles that I had threaded. (Long story.) So I needed an adapter and originally went with Area 419 (which I still use on ARs for another can brand). But when I switched to TBAC for my bolt actions, I needed a new adapter. And for all I know it's usable with other can companies, but I've just not yet determined if that's true.

I think my TBAC is great, and hearing safe. While there might be others that are lighter or better, the differences might be slight or nuanced, and might in any event require its own proprietary system. I will probably still spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out the options. And then I will find a dealer to sell another TBAC.

Is that a version that you can screw on a direct thread adapter?
Did TBAC use what is now a standard thread for the back end?

I would call TBAC and see what they might be able to do to get it to something you want. Might be able to do a retrofit, especially if you are buying another suppressor from them.

Good ideas, but I don't want to retrofit for one new can and then switch to a new system, since I'm not able to do direct thread on at least 2 of them.

Do you want to go direct thread?

I really like my Ultra 7. Don’t know about hearing safe though. I always wear ear pro so could not say.

I know the back end of my YHM Nitro 30 is proprietary, but the Resonator went to what I think is the standard back end thread for more flexiblility on mount choice. The QD stayed the same YHM but it’s the threads in the body of the suppressor. Don’t know all the jargon, don’t need to…

 

[bonepoint]

You may be able to find what you're looking for here:

https://pewscience.com/suppressorrankings

Look here for straight up comparison by many manufacturers with the same exact measuring system. https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2023/

Thanks for those references. Great data.

A lot of great responses. Thanks for the help.

In my dealer's defense, I think overall value of the Thunder Chicken also came into play, and they are currently covering the cost of the license with the purchase of can.

The brake inside of a suppressor doesn't really change recoil or noise appreciably, from my experience. It might a little bit but I can't tell with my braked suppressor. What the internal brake can do is be a QD connection and the brake baffles helps slow down the gasses and redirect some unburned powders before they hit the first baffle of the blast chamber that experiences the most erosion from unburned powders. Some suppressors require the brake for larger calibers and short barrels, at least my YHM Nitro 30 does, not sure about others. But, a suppressor appropriately sized to a magnum shouldn't need it. Check with the suppressor company to see what is approved/recommended.

So, are these brake combos more of a way to provide a brake that allows the can to easily go over the top, compared to a factory brake? I was assuming these internal brakes were part of the complete package to further reduce recoil when combined with the suppressor.

I really don't care for brakes due to the risk of shooting it without ear protection (or someone nearby), which could easily happen at some point. So, I will either shoot without a brake, or with a suppressor - so just trying to figure out the purpose of the combos.

The Raptor specs (weight/length) on the pewscience page don't match the manufacturer page, so not sure what to make of that.

I do plan on direct threading.

The TBAC Ultra 7 seems tough to beat for what I am after. I suspect the Rapter 8 is real similar. The Scythe Ti isn't listed on the comparison pages since it is so new, but also looks like a great option.

 

[hereinaz]

Thanks for those references. Great data.

A lot of great responses. Thanks for the help.

In my dealer's defense, I think overall value of the Thunder Chicken also came into play, and they are currently covering the cost of the license with the purchase of can.



So, are these brake combos more of a way to provide a brake that allows the can to easily go over the top, compared to a factory brake? I was assuming these internal brakes were part of the complete package to further reduce recoil when combined with the suppressor.

I really don't care for brakes due to the risk of shooting it without ear protection (or someone nearby), which could easily happen at some point. So, I will either shoot without a brake, or with a suppressor - so just trying to figure out the purpose of the combos.

The Raptor specs (weight/length) on the pewscience page don't match the manufacturer page, so not sure what to make of that.

I do plan on direct threading.

The TBAC Ultra 7 seems tough to beat for what I am after. I suspect the Rapter 8 is real similar. The Scythe Ti isn't listed on the comparison pages since it is so new, but also looks like a great option.

Don’t sweat figuring out the QD brake situation if you are running direct thread.

Yeah, I don’t mean to bag on the dealer, could be lots of factors why. It’s good places like this can expose you to lots of options and explanations.