Federal 6.5 Backcountry?

[RME]

Im not arguing the physics, just saying that you are arguing an academic non issue as most people will run a can and/or hearing protection with short 6.5CM, and folks are shooting bigger calibers with far more muzzle blast. Also, and please stop experimenting on yourself, I'm worried for your well being.

I was thinking the same thing. I've shot thousands of rounds from specialty pistols with 10-15" barrels and I have no idea what they sound like because I've never touched off a round hunting or otherwise without ear pro. I used to hunt with too many deaf, "one shot won't hurt", guys to not protect my ears.

 

[The_Yetti]

I found myself in front, but a little to the side of a Abrams in Iraq. Those 7 rounds without hearing protection hurt and had a bit of an effect!

 

[OneGunTex]

Take this from a guy who believes in suppressors. I believe that if I’m polite enough to put a muffler on my car, I should put one on my firearm.

Wait, if I straight piped my hot rod, does that make me an a^^h*le? What if I just bought it like that?

 

[teflonhunter]

Take this from a guy who believes in suppressors. I believe that if I’m polite enough to put a muffler on my car, I should put one on my firearm.

LOL , I don't think I'm the polite type. Don't own a suppressor.

 

[BLJ]

My load in my 6.5cm at sea level in an 18in barrel carries the minimum upset velocity I'm comfortable with to 550 yards. Ya, that'll do.

That’s right at what I was coming up with for a 147 ELDM 2400 MV.

That’s a poke for me.

 

[Chris in TN]

So, I have a question about the high-pressure steel-case concept in general. This question would apply to any caliber.

What about primers? Does the extra hoop strength in a steel case versus brass, help stop primers from blowing?

I have been shooting a 5.56 pressure (but well below predicted max in GRT, and my chrono results support that) load in my .223 and with one certain brand of primers (that is historically known for this, though it's irrelevant as they haven't been imported in over a decade) - Tula small rifles - I get 'blanking' every few shots. I discontinued their usage. Good news is, I have other primers; bad news is I have a good many of those TulaSR I will need to burn elsewhere, and I don't shoot those 'elsewhere' calibers much at all anymore.

But that highlights an issue - primers tend to be the weak link in ammo. An overpressure brass case load is likely to blow out a primer before it ruins a case, and of course if the primer pocket enlarges, there's nothing to stop the primer itself from rupturing.

All that to set up my question: Are our legacy primers strong enough to withstand 80kpsi when used in steel cases? Or does this new ammo indicate a need for a thicker cup or steel-cup primer? Is priming a steel cup primer into a steel casehead a safe exercise with conventional equipment? Or should we just expect to see primers flattened with no attendant problems to go with that?

I'm genuinely not asking to be critical. I just don't know the answer to these questions and don't remember seeing them discussed, though I'll admit I didn't read the entirety of every thread we've had.

 

[wind gypsy]

So, I have a question about the high-pressure steel-case concept in general. This question would apply to any caliber.

What about primers? Does the extra hoop strength in a steel case versus brass, help stop primers from blowing?

I have been shooting a 5.56 pressure (but well below predicted max in GRT, and my chrono results support that) load in my .223 and with one certain brand of primers (that is historically known for this, though it's irrelevant as they haven't been imported in over a decade) - Tula small rifles - I get 'blanking' every few shots. I discontinued their usage. Good news is, I have other primers; bad news is I have a good many of those TulaSR I will need to burn elsewhere, and I don't shoot those 'elsewhere' calibers much at all anymore.

But that highlights an issue - primers tend to be the weak link in ammo. An overpressure brass case load is likely to blow out a primer before it ruins a case, and of course if the primer pocket enlarges, there's nothing to stop the primer itself from rupturing.

All that to set up my question: Are our legacy primers strong enough to withstand 80kpsi when used in steel cases? Or does this new ammo indicate a need for a thicker cup or steel-cup primer? Is priming a steel cup primer into a steel casehead a safe exercise with conventional equipment? Or should we just expect to see primers flattened with no attendant problems to go with that?

I'm genuinely not asking to be critical. I just don't know the answer to these questions and don't remember seeing them discussed, though I'll admit I didn't read the entirety of every thread we've had.

My Inquiries elsewhere on the topic below. I THINK LedZep is miles neville of hornady but not positive:




Haven't seen any answers to this clarification question:

 

[Chris in TN]

My Inquiries elsewhere on the topic below. I THINK LedZep is miles neville of hornady but not positive:

View attachment 1079472
View attachment 1079473

Haven't seen any answers to this clarification question:

View attachment 1079474

Thank you. That's very helpful - insofar as it highlights that there's no official pat answer yet. I think it's a question I want to see answered before I even consider going down this road. And, again, I'm not likely to go down this road myself anyway, but I'd hope that when others do, they think this stuff through before jumping in.

 

[bnewt3]

Thank you. That's very helpful - insofar as it highlights that there's no official pat answer yet. I think it's a question I want to see answered before I even consider going down this road. And, again, I'm not likely to go down this road myself anyway, but I'd hope that when others do, they think this stuff through before jumping in.

could be naive or ignorant on my part, but I would assume load data will specify primer if something out of the norm is needed.

 

[diverc18]

Here in AK we have a couple freight forwarders in WA we can ground ship things to and they bring them up by boat rather inexpensively. Does HI not have a similar service?

Not that I know of. I’ll have to look into that. Just got off the phone with Kygunco and they ship ammo to Hawaii now. 63 dollars shipping and no hazmat fee. 10 boxes of tmks on preorder. Way cheaper than going through my ffl.

 

[z987k]

So, I have a question about the high-pressure steel-case concept in general. This question would apply to any caliber.

What about primers? Does the extra hoop strength in a steel case versus brass, help stop primers from blowing?

I have been shooting a 5.56 pressure (but well below predicted max in GRT, and my chrono results support that) load in my .223 and with one certain brand of primers (that is historically known for this, though it's irrelevant as they haven't been imported in over a decade) - Tula small rifles - I get 'blanking' every few shots. I discontinued their usage. Good news is, I have other primers; bad news is I have a good many of those TulaSR I will need to burn elsewhere, and I don't shoot those 'elsewhere' calibers much at all anymore.

But that highlights an issue - primers tend to be the weak link in ammo. An overpressure brass case load is likely to blow out a primer before it ruins a case, and of course if the primer pocket enlarges, there's nothing to stop the primer itself from rupturing.

All that to set up my question: Are our legacy primers strong enough to withstand 80kpsi when used in steel cases? Or does this new ammo indicate a need for a thicker cup or steel-cup primer? Is priming a steel cup primer into a steel casehead a safe exercise with conventional equipment? Or should we just expect to see primers flattened with no attendant problems to go with that?

I'm genuinely not asking to be critical. I just don't know the answer to these questions and don't remember seeing them discussed, though I'll admit I didn't read the entirety of every thread we've had.

At least with the 277 fury, the steel doesn't expand like the brass and grips the primer better. No issues at all running at 80k for many reloads. The case necks split on that one before anything happens with the primers.

 

[Chris in TN]

At least with the 277 fury, the steel doesn't expand like the brass and grips the primer better. No issues at all running at 80k for many reloads. The case necks split on that one before anything happens with the primers.

That's good to know, thank you.

 

[BLJ]

I’ll say that for me, I don’t have the need, ability or possibility for a 725-750 yard shot on an animal in field conditions.

See. They just show up.

 

[RWT]

I would prefer Federal develop a load that adds 10-30% more inches to every buck and bull I shoot.
My 180 buck measures out at 200”, 300 bull measures 340.

I would pay $100 per round for that kind of performance. Then I can justify shooting past 500 yards.

 

[JTabas1989]

It will definitely be different. Good thing I have a short action standard bolt face I have to build on

Wrong. It's compatible with existing 6.5cm rifles as long as manufacturer says it can handle the pressure, which shouldn't be an issue.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Came across this today. I don’t know anything about the guy, but I’ve seen some other videos where he was shooting some reloaded + peaks and 135 a-tips @ 3188fps. Scanned through the comments, he wasn’t revealing anything about the process.
View attachment 1078985

I am going to make an assumption that it took either a series of collet dies, or some some sort of hydraulic forming to get them to come out without wrinkling the necks.

Also, shooting a load that is producing 3100+fps with a 103 out of a gasser is pretty ballsy.

Cool to see, however. While I currently don't have a need or use for the new 6.5+, if they come out with a 6+, I may have to dive in.

Also, as a long-time handgun hunter, I think these cartridges have quite a bit of potential for bolt-action handguns. An extra 100-200 yards in a handgun always came with more recoil than most wanted to deal with (or required a significant brake of some sort). This tech changes that.

 

[DangerRanger]

Fair enough.

I’ll say that for me, I don’t have the need, ability or possibility for a 725-750 yard shot on an animal in field conditions.

Standard 6.5 Creedmoor velocity is beyond my ability.

That’s right at what I was coming up with for a 147 ELDM 2400 MV.

That’s a poke for me.

Agree, it usually comes out in the 500-600 range for factory ammo with a short cut creed.

Definitely not me saying everyone *needs* it, but I do think it’s where this is most useful and begins to make sense math wise.

A big part of this for me is simply federal premium ammo quality with a tmk. I am tired of handloading, but want to keep shooting tmks, add in that it takes my range from “probably more than I’ll ever need” to “longer than any field I have on property” as there is one I’ve got 612 to the tree line