Federal 6.5 Backcountry?

[JohnJohnson]

The whole discussion was initially based on a 12 year old...and the 6.5Creedmore bunnies turned it into something about them

The 6.5 Creedmoor bunnies turned it into something about them in the thread about a new ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor?

Margin of error for a young shooter.

The extra 250 fps gives how much 'margin for error' on an elk? 3 inches? 6 inches? What does that look like to you.

 

[gretch6364]

So arrows are incapable of killing elk. They don’t carry 1800 lbs at any point. How did the Indians survive?

Are you serious? Please read something besides online forums.

 

[gretch6364]

The 6.5 Creedmoor bunnies turned it into something about them in the thread about a new ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor?

The extra 250 fps gives how much 'margin for error' on an elk? 3 inches? 6 inches? What does that look like to you.

Not sure you can quantify like that...it is a balance of recoil and ballistics.

No full sized adult should be picking a 6.5CM to shoot at elk...period.

 

[BLJ]

No full sized adult should be picking a 6.5CM to shoot at elk...period.

What about a 7/8 sized adult?

 

[Grizzle]

That Gretch fella is big on opinion and small on facts haha you are entitled to your opinion, doesn't mean that anyone with experience is going to agree. So many false statements in a few short posts. I'm guessing some guys are bored today for even entertaining his nonsense.

 

[BLJ]

I'm guessing some guys are bored today for even entertaining his nonsense.

Guilty as charged.

 

[LongWayAround]

That would likely be for the best if you are taking 400+ yard shots on elk. None of this even considered the discussion of expanded diameter and the inherent weaknesses of a 6.5mm projectile.

People like LongWayAround an d PredatoronthePrairie are why this new ammo is so exciting. Saves the elk from some of them.

Faster ammo saves the elk?

I had only planned to shoot one with a rifle this year. I'll pick up another tag just for you.

 

[WCB]

Not sure you can quantify like that...it is a balance of recoil and ballistics.

No full sized adult should be picking a 6.5CM to shoot at elk...period.

If it isn't adequate for and adult and in theory more experienced shooter...why they heck would it be a good option for an inexperienced young shooter?

 

[Grizzle]

Its funny how often the guys with the least knowledge are the most eager to share it.

 

[Subs]

I would be curious to know from Federal if the whole concept revolves around shooting further or getting more velocity out of short barrels. Likely both played an equal part. I'm excited about more velocity out of a shorter suppressed set up, I'm just afraid as soon as I get that dialed in, we'll see the 6mm CM +PEAK come along. If this tech takes off like it should, there are a lot of us who are going to get caught up in a continual upgrade loop!

 

[gretch6364]

If it isn't adequate for and adult and in theory more experienced shooter...why they heck would it be a good option for an inexperienced young shooter?

Balance what you shoot well and limit your range. Some over excited dude from south carolina sees his first bull ever at 500 yards....I bet you can guess what happens next with his 6.5CM.

+Peak will absolutely lower wound rates. I 100% hope every elk shot at is killed dead in its tracks and found. Hopefully the overweight hunter that has never been above 7,000 ft of elevation isn't too far from his two wheel drive pickup.

 

[ckt3]

None of this even considered the discussion of expanded diameter and the inherent weaknesses of a 6.5mm projectile.

What’s the inherent weakness of the 6.5 mm projectile?

 

[gretch6364]

What’s the inherent weakness of the 6.5 mm projectile?

Frontal diameter of an expanded 6.5 is 35% smaller compare to a 30 caliber bullet. This is the only issue IMHO. 6.5 has much better ballistics otherwise...which is why it is so awesome for deer sized game and target.

6.5 is absolutely an awesome projectile for deer, sheep, goat and lope. I love it with all my heart.

 

[bnewt3]

The main advantage, as I see it is just the same as 7BC, no longer do you give up so much when running a short barrel.

ELDX supposedly needs at least 1800fps to work reliably

assuming some things here:
MV is 2500 with 18" brass 143eldx, 1800fps = 475yds
MV is 2700 with 24" brass 143eldx, 1800fps = 600yds and 10" less drop @ 475yds
MV is 2700 with 18" +Peak 143eldx, 1800fps = 600yds and 10" less drop @ 475yds
or if you dont care about short barrel
MV is 2900 with 24" +Peak 143eldx, 1800fps = 725yds and almost 18" less drop @475yds

So you get ~24" brass perf with ~18" barrel and you dont have to accept 6.5PRC recoil to get it. THATS the win.

should anyone take 600yd or longer shots? IMO no, but options are nice.

 

[bnewt3]

I would be curious to know from Federal if the whole concept revolves around shooting further or getting more velocity out of short barrels. Likely both played an equal part. I'm excited about more velocity out of a shorter suppressed set up, I'm just afraid as soon as I get that dialed in, we'll see the 6mm CM +PEAK come along. If this tech takes off like it should, there are a lot of us who are going to get caught up in a continual upgrade loop!

"the continual upgrade loop" is nothing more than marketing preying on our insecurities.

Not a single cartridge has gotten any worse than is ever has been. Just because something new comes out doesnt mean a previous comparable option stops working or works any less. Pick something that does the job and run with it. Or upgrade til you are blue in the face if thats what flips your switch. Just be content in whatever you do.

The search for a cartridge more perfect than the last one will never end unless you stop playing the game.

In my case, I was looking at a 6mm of some kind for a faster, flatter option. Now im looking at my 6.5 creed as a really great do-all.

 

[The Guide]

No full sized adult should be picking a 6.5CM to shoot at elk...period.

That's right! Full-sized adults should be using their 223's for elk. Everyone knows that...

Jay

 

[ckt3]

Frontal diameter of an expanded 6.5 is 35% smaller compare to a 30 caliber bullet. This is the only issue IMHO. 6.5 has much better ballistics otherwise...which is why it is so awesome for deer sized game and target.

6.5 is absolutely an awesome projectile for deer, sheep, goat and lope. I love it with all my heart.

30 cal is inherently limited by that logic relative to 338 or 50 cal. The evaluation needs to be anchored to a functional outcome, not simply an arbitrary diameter (ie. there must be a justification why certain diameter is the minimum that is sufficient).

50 cal is limited relative to 20 mm. Somewhere along the gradient “sufficiency” is reached for a given outcome (eg. killing an elk well). It’s sounds like for killing elk you think sufficiency is not yet reached by 6.5 mm but it is at .308 cal. How about 6.8 mm or 7 mm? And why?

Right now your argument is some numbers and mostly feelings. For example, there is no logic there saying why it is enough for deer but not elk. Given its smaller expanded size than 308, why is it awesome for deer?

 

[UnckleBob]

I mean, do you need the extra 200 or so yards this buys over standard 6.5cm? That's all it does. With the associated increase in recoil. I would venture to say an 11 year old doesn't.

I think we will find that it will perform very much like a 6.5 PRC or 270 on bigger game like Elk. That will eliminate the "needs-more" issue.

 

[Subs]

Does anyone have any knowledge on if the higher pressure will affect wear on a suppressor out of short barrels (16")?

 

[bnewt3]

30 cal is inherently limited by that logic relative to 338 or 50 cal. The evaluation needs to be anchored to a functional outcome, not simply an arbitrary diameter (ie. there must be a justification why certain diameter is the minimum that is sufficient).

50 cal is limited relative to 20 mm. Somewhere along the gradient “sufficiency” is reached for a given outcome (eg. killing an elk well). It’s sounds like for killing elk you think sufficiency is not yet reached by 6.5 mm but it is at .308 cal. How about 6.8 mm or 7 mm? And why?

Right now your argument is some numbers and mostly feelings. For example, there is no logic there saying why it is enough for deer but not elk. Given its smaller expanded size than 308, why is it awesome for deer?

Exactly, why not a 16" gun from a battleship?