"Falling out" of your peep at longer distances

[Jon_G]

I just saw a video that John Dudley posted today and it talked about an issue that has been bugging me since I started to shoot longer distances (60-90 yards). When we set up or peep typically it's at 20 yards, so when you turn the dial to aim at say 89 yards, your anchor and ehsd position move around to try to find the peep.

Anyhow, Dudley said if you move your peep a tiny bit down then you'll be more comfortable keeping your anchor point at longer shots but you will have to adjust your sight tape. My question is, what will this do to your sight tape? Will you need a different one and will you need to readjust your pins? Will you lose yardage or anything of the sort? Sorry if it's a dumb question but before I start tinkering I'd like to be prepared for what may happen.

 

[Tjdeerslayer37]

if you move your peep down, you will lose max yardage on your slider. the opposite is true, you will gain max yardage by moving your peep up.

 

[Billy Goat]

Depends on how much you move it.

Moving it down the string will increase the sight radius, which will make sight tape need to grow slightly.

I don't know that you will notice an 1/8 difference tho.


Best thing to do is set your peep in the middle of the range you plan to shoot the bow. Indoor bow, sight it in at 20 and set the peep. A field bow I'm shooting out to 80, I normally sight it in at 47 yards, then set the peep for that.

3d that I'll be shooting to 50 ish yard's, I sight in around 38.

 

[ddowning]

Depends on how much you move it.

Moving it down the string will increase the sight radius, which will make sight tape need to grow slightly.

I don't know that you will notice an 1/8 difference tho.


Best thing to do is set your peep in the middle of the range you plan to shoot the bow. Indoor bow, sight it in at 20 and set the peep. A field bow I'm shooting out to 80, I normally sight it in at 47 yards, then set the peep for that.

3d that I'll be shooting to 50 ish yard's, I sight in around 38.

^^^^^^^Good advice here.

 

[Jon_G]

Depends on how much you move it.

Moving it down the string will increase the sight radius, which will make sight tape need to grow slightly.

I don't know that you will notice an 1/8 difference tho.


Best thing to do is set your peep in the middle of the range you plan to shoot the bow. Indoor bow, sight it in at 20 and set the peep. A field bow I'm shooting out to 80, I normally sight it in at 47 yards, then set the peep for that.

3d that I'll be shooting to 50 ish yard's, I sight in around 38.

Perfect, thank you. I've been shooting for less than 2 years and I'm still learning. I had never heard that it's good to move your peep down if you're shooting longer distances until now. I am planning on shooting a lot of 80 yard shots because it's the longest distance at my range AND most importantly because I know I won't shoot an animal past that. I want to get really good at 80 and I always noticed that I'm never quite comfortable looking through the peep when shooting that far. I will move it either today or tomorrow and hope I'm OK with my shots after lol

 

[Billy Goat]

Perfect, thank you. I've been shooting for less than 2 years and I'm still learning. I had never heard that it's good to move your peep down if you're shooting longer distances until now. I am planning on shooting a lot of 80 yard shots because it's the longest distance at my range AND most importantly because I know I won't shoot an animal past that. I want to get really good at 80 and I always noticed that I'm never quite comfortable looking through the peep when shooting that far. I will move it either today or tomorrow and hope I'm OK with my shots after lol

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in shooting distance, I think it brings about more issues than it fixes.


You can learn more shooting a bow at 7 yards than anywhere else.

Just shoot a distance where you are comfortable and not fighting the bow to keep it on the target.

 

[Jon_G]

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in shooting distance, I think it brings about more issues than it fixes.


You can learn more shooting a bow at 7 yards than anywhere else.

Just shoot a distance where you are comfortable and not fighting the bow to keep it on the target.

I think I need to just stop watching videos because then I get new ideas in my head and I feel like I've been doing things wrong

 

[sndmn11]

I set the peep shooting in the garage with no sight on...

 

[180ls1]

I dont like the 20 yard insitance. Heck, my first pin is 30. Try playing around with it setup for further distances.

 

[dkime]

If you’re bailing out of your peep at distance adjusting your peep will only be treating the symptom and not the disease.

Shorten your Dloop 1/16” of an inch

If you don’t have room to adjust your d loop then you’ll need to twist your string to shorten DL slightly.

Shorten the release length slightly if it’s a wrist strap.

Grip the release slightly deeper in your hand if it’s a handheld

The problem becomes worse when we run out of room to expand properly through the shot. You begin to run out of leverage at Distance, which is also seen at angled shots.

IMHO peep height position is a function of face geometry and the most commonly anticipated shot. Shooting and practicing distance is fun with your buddies but will ultimately create more bad habits than anything if you don’t know what you’re doing to yourself.

When we over expand too early in the shot process our body begins to cheat and starts changing joint angles to compensate. Release side elbow drops and begins to wrap behind the shooters head, bow arm extends, hips shift forward, head tilts rearward. Body starts to use too much muscle and we make a shitty shot.

The only joints we have available when shooting a bow that can expand in a linear function are our fingers when shooting a handheld

If shooting a wrist strap, the strap itself sliding about the wrist creates the required linear activation.

Short of it; you don’t have any leverage on your backside to execute properly before the face begins to move down and away from your peep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jon_G]

If you’re bailing out of your peep at distance adjusting your peep will only be treating the symptom and not the disease.

Shorten your Dloop 1/16” of an inch

If you don’t have room to adjust your d loop then you’ll need to twist your string to shorten DL slightly.

Shorten the release length slightly if it’s a wrist strap.

Grip the release slightly deeper in your hand if it’s a handheld

The problem becomes worse when we run out of room to expand properly through the shot. You begin to run out of leverage at Distance, which is also seen at angled shots.

IMHO peep height position is a function of face geometry and the most commonly anticipated shot. Shooting and practicing distance is fun with your buddies but will ultimately create more bad habits than anything if you don’t know what you’re doing to yourself.

When we over expand too early in the shot process our body begins to cheat and starts changing joint angles to compensate. Release side elbow drops and begins to wrap behind the shooters head, bow arm extends, hips shift forward, head tilts rearward. Body starts to use too much muscle and we make a shitty shot.

The only joints we have available when shooting a bow that can expand in a linear function are our fingers when shooting a handheld

If shooting a wrist strap, the strap itself sliding about the wrist creates the required linear activation.

Short of it; you don’t have any leverage on your backside to execute properly before the face begins to move down and away from your peep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is great information thank you. No one has recommended tying a shorter d loop but I am going to try that first but can you explain your reasoning behind it? I imagine shortening the d loop will naturally put your peep closer to your sight and therefore you'll notice less of "Falling out" of it effect is this correct? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dkime]

That is great information thank you. No one has recommended tying a shorter d loop but I am going to try that first but can you explain your reasoning behind it? I imagine shortening the d loop will naturally put your peep closer to your sight and therefore you'll notice less of "Falling out" of it effect is this correct? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

One thing I want you to keep in mind while I’m answering on here. I’m on my phone probably a million miles away from you currently and have absolutely no ability to watch you shoot. I am making a lot of recommendations based entirely on assumptions.

By shortening your D Loop the slightest amount you’re able to put your release side shoulder and release side elbow into a slightly more obtuse joint angle. This will allow for more strength to be used on your backside.

This allows for an easier shot process.

An easier shot process takes less time to execute properly.


Most importantly also allows for proper expansion and overall mechanics.


If the shooter is over expanded then the list of items I talked about before occur.

The goal is to manipulate the bow to put the shooter in correct position rather than have the shooter fight the bow while attempting to get into position.

1/16” doesn’t seem like much but it is enough that if you want to achieve high level results on the extreme ends of things that it needs to be looked at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jon_G]

One thing I want you to keep in mind while I’m answering on here. I’m on my phone probably a million miles away from you currently and have absolutely no ability to watch you shoot. I am making a lot of recommendations based entirely on assumptions.

By shortening your D Loop the slightest amount you’re able to put your release side shoulder and release side elbow into a slightly more obtuse joint angle. This will allow for more strength to be used on your backside.

This allows for an easier shot process.

An easier shot process takes less time to execute properly.


Most importantly also allows for proper expansion and overall mechanics.


If the shooter is over expanded then the list of items I talked about before occur.

The goal is to manipulate the bow to put the shooter in correct position rather than have the shooter fight the bow while attempting to get into position.

1/16” doesn’t seem like much but it is enough that if you want to achieve high level results on the extreme ends of things that it needs to be looked at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, thanks for the great explanation. For the past week I've been feeling like it's time to tie on a new d loop anyway so I'll start with that and see how it feels. I can put my phone on my tripod and record my mechanics and see how it's looking. When I started shooting a little over a year ago I was recording myself and I was able to fix some issues that I was noticing when studying shooting form in different YouTube videos. I wouldn't be surprised if my mechanics have changed for the worse.

 

[fulldraw71]

I saw this same video this morning. That seems like a lot of work.

 

[Jon_G]

I saw this same video this morning. That seems like a lot of work.

Lol yeah I'm not nearly as experienced as a lot of these guys so it does seem hard but that is why it is sometimes good to tinker with things so you can learn how to fix things for yourself.

 

[fulldraw71]

Lol yeah I'm not nearly as experienced as a lot of these guys so it does seem hard but that is why it is sometimes good to tinker with things so you can learn how to fix things for yourself.

I get it. I was meaning I tinker so much that I get tired of it lol. The more I get tired of tinkering the more I just want to “set it and forget it” . I shoot a 5 pin fixed so it technically doesn’t apply to me anyways but sometimes think of getting a slider. I just don’t want to keep messing with crap all the time.

 

[Jon_G]

I get it. I was meaning I tinker so much that I get tired of it lol. The more I get tired of tinkering the more I just want to “set it and forget it” . I shoot a 5 pin fixed so it technically doesn’t apply to me anyways but sometimes think of getting a slider. I just don’t want to keep messing with crap all the time.

Yeah I guess if you have a fixed 5 pin and you can comfortably shoot in between gaps and you're accurate then you don't need a slider. I have never actually shot an all fixed pin sight though and Idk if I could lol

 

[fulldraw71]

Yeah I guess if you have a fixed 5 pin and you can comfortably shoot in between gaps and you're accurate then you don't need a slider. I have never actually shot an all fixed pin sight though and Idk if I could lol

Well depends. For hunting big game yes. For 3d and those pesky 12 rings I am struggling to gap shoot at odd yardages. I can usually hit the 10 ring but my brain can’t process the imaginary pin on a spot the size of quarter if it’s 25,35,33 yards etc. this is where I think a slider would be awesome

 

[ddowning]

One thing I want you to keep in mind while I’m answering on here. I’m on my phone probably a million miles away from you currently and have absolutely no ability to watch you shoot. I am making a lot of recommendations based entirely on assumptions.

By shortening your D Loop the slightest amount you’re able to put your release side shoulder and release side elbow into a slightly more obtuse joint angle. This will allow for more strength to be used on your backside.

This allows for an easier shot process.

An easier shot process takes less time to execute properly.


Most importantly also allows for proper expansion and overall mechanics.


If the shooter is over expanded then the list of items I talked about before occur.

The goal is to manipulate the bow to put the shooter in correct position rather than have the shooter fight the bow while attempting to get into position.

1/16” doesn’t seem like much but it is enough that if you want to achieve high level results on the extreme ends of things that it needs to be looked at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is all good stuff. John is trying to touch on some of this at the end, but instead of going into the weeds, he focuses on a little snippet. I think sometimes he leads people astray this way. It makes for good youtube clicks, but isn't necessarily the most comprehensive coaching. He's really touching on tips, tricks, and minutia that will help the above average archer that has all the basics worked out.

Both of you are right. You have to have your now set-up and body position so you can expand in line with the arrow to trigger the shot. It also makes a difference where you set your peep if you are good enough to notice 1/16" of draw length (it is definitely noticeable) then you are good enough to notice a small movement in the peep/anchor.

The non floating anchor was touted as the selling point of the original spot-hogg hogg-it make in the early 2000's. Even though the pin housing didn't move and that's what you were centering in the peep, I could still feel the subtle change as a raised the bow to get to the next pin. Just as you said, it is similar to shooting up and down hills. A lot of little things that I stumbled on by accident matter a lot. I had to actually learn what I had done to be able to teach it to my kids.

When everything is working it is like magic. One little thing can make it awkward and it all flies apart. Once you have the basics, pin movement is all about bow fitment and body position. Less pin movement during aggressive execution=smaller groups.

 

[Jon_G]

This is all good stuff. John is trying to touch on some of this at the end, but instead of going into the weeds, he focuses on a little snippet. I think sometimes he leads people astray this way. It makes for good youtube clicks, but isn't necessarily the most comprehensive coaching. He's really touching on tips, tricks, and minutia that will help the above average archer that has all the basics worked out.

Both of you are right. You have to have your now set-up and body position so you can expand in line with the arrow to trigger the shot. It also makes a difference where you set your peep if you are good enough to notice 1/16" of draw length (it is definitely noticeable) then you are good enough to notice a small movement in the peep/anchor.

The non floating anchor was touted as the selling point of the original spot-hogg hogg-it make in the early 2000's. Even though the pin housing didn't move and that's what you were centering in the peep, I could still feel the subtle change as a raised the bow to get to the next pin. Just as you said, it is similar to shooting up and down hills. A lot of little things that I stumbled on by accident matter a lot. I had to actually learn what I had done to be able to teach it to my kids.

When everything is working it is like magic. One little thing can make it awkward and it all flies apart. Once you have the basics, pin movement is all about bow fitment and body position. Less pin movement during aggressive execution=smaller groups.

Very well said. I guess I stress about the little things because I want to become the best archer I can be. I personally know people who shoot and say "eh that's good enough" and walk away completely happy. I don't plan on shooting to compete but I don't want to shoot an animal and have that mentality. I'm glad I posted and that I am continuing to receive great information. Thanks for your time!