Fair Chase

[cuerro viejo]

there is no true fair chase in regards to your stomach.

Its nothing more then feel good paradox.

Op statement proves it “ can not guarantee management of quality animals on the landscape in this scenario.”

quality isnt a product of fair chase, Its a product of regulations to push older age class harvest, nothing any different then protecting non migrating animals on private so they get older

 

[Wrench]

A major contributing factor was the covid lock down.

I saw people in places I've never seen them. They were camped everywhere, hiking everywhere, berry picking everywhere, fishing everywhere.....etc.

When you move ungulates in winter feeding and calving season, you are hurting them.

The incidental mortality from wounded animals is not as significant as pressure.

Now add in decreasing habitat from rural development and the covid pressure and you have a recipe for decline.

 

[bobco]

Since this CPW employee works Gunnison, I will throw out the concept that winter feeding contributes to fragile herds and conditions animals to believe people might not be an enemy.


I think it's a part of an honest conversation regarding fair chase and herd health.

I think 2 winters ago winter feeding in the Gunnison Basin would have been a good thing, not because the mule deer were starving but to get them away from the HWY where they were being slaughtered by vehicles. The CPW Current season structure has done a great job of removing quality bucks off the landscape.

 

[fatlander]

Absolutely hunting needs to get harder again. The wild turkey is the canary in the coal mine right now. Their populations are absolutely tanking. 30+% decreases across the range, and worse in localized areas.

Hyper realistic decoys, fanning, tss, rifles in the spring, the age of information, etc. The birds just can’t keep up to our evolving tactics. We’re recruiting less turkeys every year and killing more than before. It’s completely unsustainable but #chasing49, #turkeytour, and #cantstoptheflop is the world we currently live in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheTone]

For the long range hunting portion of that I'm not sure whether it matches with reality. There's a recent thread on success rates by weapon choice over the years for Idaho elk hunters. Rifle success is basically unchanged during the rifle technology revolution of the past decade. It seems like an overblown fearmongering line of thinking that people get from consuming too much social media from guys who hunt for a living. It's not a big trend in the general hunting population (yet).

Success rate by weapon choice as a function of advancing technology

I came across this graph while reading through some Idaho elk management information. The effects of advancing technology on harvest success has been debated in the past but this is the first time I've seen a graph that illustrates how this has changed over time. I did some quick looking at...

rokslide.com

But I guess it's much less captivating to talk about harsh winters and cheat grass.

The only way this makes sense to me is if the guys shooting stuff at long range now were still the ones killing stuff prior to going long range. I talk to multiple hunters every year that shot something way out there; that critter would have still been alive 20 years ago. I know of a group that shot multiple bulls in one drainage 6 or so years ago. Everyone of them shot at long range. The area still hasn’t gotten back to what it was prior to them.

 

[JohnJohnson]

The only way this makes sense to me is if the guys shooting stuff at long range now were still the ones killing stuff prior to going long range. I talk to multiple hunters every year that shot something way out there; that critter would have still been alive 20 years ago. I know of a group that shot multiple bulls in one drainage 6 or so years ago. Everyone of them shot at long range. The area still hasn’t gotten back to what it was prior to them.

Maybe for that area it's a real thing, a sort of phenomenon that does crop up at small scale for certain pockets. But on a macro-scale, long range hunting doesn't seem to have changed anything for rifle harvest rates. People like to talk about it because they see it on social media and it's more difficult to talk about habitat and environmental factors that are actually affecting game populations.

 

[sndmn11]

I think 2 winters ago winter feeding in the Gunnison Basin would have been a good thing, not because the mule deer were starving but to get them away from the HWY where they were being slaughtered by vehicles. The CPW Current season structure has done a great job of removing quality bucks off the landscape.

I'm glad you commented, the highway aspect never crossed my mind.

I dislike human feeding because I think it artificially elevates "habitat capacity" by making wildlife dependent on people. I think it's possible that animal travel is altered to concentrate around conditioned feeding sites and then when a "bad winter" happens animals die in hot spots while good habitat eas bypassed and not touched.

 

[Wrench]

Fair warning to those who haven't had the luxury of alpha predators and feeding stations.

Here in Washington we had a long running sheep feeding station that was successfully keeping a great population. We produced book rams from that area.

We banned hound hunting for cats and suddenly the cats clued in on that station. The station had to stop and the population of sheep was killed off by the cats.

Wolves did the same thing in the winter grounds on the elk and deer.

High concentrations without protection make them sitting ducks.

 

[bobco]

I'm glad you commented, the highway aspect never crossed my mind.

I dislike human feeding because I think it artificially elevates "habitat capacity" by making wildlife dependent on people. I think it's possible that animal travel is altered to concentrate around conditioned feeding sites and then when a "bad winter" happens animals die in hot spots while good habitat eas bypassed and not touched.

the last time I know they fed up in The Gunnison basin was to keep the deer off the Hwy, I thought it was successful. It is a harsh place in a bad winter.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Fair warning to those who haven't had the luxury of alpha predators and feeding stations.

Here in Washington we had a long running sheep feeding station that was successfully keeping a great population. We produced book rams from that area.

We banned hound hunting for cats and suddenly the cats clued in on that station. The station had to stop and the population of sheep was killed off by the cats.

Wolves did the same thing in the winter grounds on the elk and deer.

High concentrations without protection make them sitting ducks.

it’s common sense, even for the anti’s

 

[Wrench]

Sullivan Lake bighorn sheep winter feeding stopped for season due to cougars

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) stopped feeding bighorn sheep at the Sullivan Lake winter feeding station in Pend Oreille County this week because cougars persisting there pose a potential public safety problem. This is the second consecutive year that sheep feeding at the...

wdfw.wa.gov

 

[MuleyFever]

For the long range hunting portion of that I'm not sure whether it matches with reality. There's a recent thread on success rates by weapon choice over the years for Idaho elk hunters. Rifle success is basically unchanged during the rifle technology revolution of the past decade. It seems like an overblown fearmongering line of thinking that people get from consuming too much social media from guys who hunt for a living. It's not a big trend in the general hunting population (yet).

Success rate by weapon choice as a function of advancing technology

I came across this graph while reading through some Idaho elk management information. The effects of advancing technology on harvest success has been debated in the past but this is the first time I've seen a graph that illustrates how this has changed over time. I did some quick looking at...

rokslide.com

But I guess it's much less captivating to talk about harsh winters and cheat grass.

There is a lot more to it than just looking at the success rates. One consideration is herd population over that time and tag numbers. If the herd is trending down and success rates are steady could it be due to advancement in tech and long range shooting?

 

[ElGuapo]

If we’re basing this around age class of buck in Colorado, specifically. Moving the rifle dates back to the old dates would pretty much fix this issue in the next 5 years. Hunting bucks with rifles all through the month of November did what they expected it to do. No other real changes needed.

 

[bobco]

If we’re basing this around age class of buck in Colorado, specifically. Moving the rifle dates back to the old dates would pretty much fix this issue in the next 5 years. Hunting bucks with rifles all through the month of November did what they expected it to do. No other real changes needed.

If we’re basing this around age class of buck in Colorado, specifically. Moving the rifle dates back to the old dates would pretty much fix this issue in the next 5 years. Hunting bucks with rifles all through the month of November did what they expected it to do. No other real changes needed.

no doubt, we shed hunt in the Gunnison Basin, the past 2 years it is a fork horn bonanza, if you find a 4 pt it is almost always chalk, the big bucks have been wiped out during the 4th rifle rut. Sounds like it was intentional because bucks have 50% higher CWD infection. But they did this to herds that have never had CWD (Gunnison Basin). Hope the next 5-year structure fixes this but not holding my breath.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I wish I could catch the podcast, I am in podcast purgatory after Google podcast went away. Currently using Amazon but it does not have the Rokast

Youtube

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I also live in IA, and the concept of fair chase for whitetails was gone years ago. In IA and other places where horn porn is king, and public land is scarce or over pressured, fair chase is a distant memory. If you have more and bigger food plots than your neighbors, all you need are a decent blind or shooting house downwind of the food, a decent rifle, and some patience. It's not uncommon at all to sit and watch the same herds night after night, waiting until one of the bucks on a "hit list" (CRINGE) steps out.

Elk hunting in the Bob permanently ruined whitetail hunting in IA for me, and it wasn't because there was a lot of game or because it was easy. Quite the opposite actually. They are not even in the same spectrum.

Go to the Iowa Deer Classic one time, and its obvious that the marketing of products is becoming more and more targeted at the wealthy. Its become a rich man's game, and its super annoying seeing guys brag about the 200"er that they shot over a 10 acre standing bean food plot, from their $5k shooting house, that they got to on their $20k UTV.

If they made intentional food plots illegal in Iowa, things would get much harder and some of the hype would diminish. There is no shortage of food in most areas of this state and food plots are essentially baiting which is illegal in Iowa.

 

[mt terry d]

Limit the number of tags.

If you don't have a tag you won't kill a deer at 100
yards or 1000 yards.

Oh, wait, the F&G's budget is a higher priority than the
a quality herd.

Yeah, it can't be their fault.

 

[KurtR]

If the population cant with stand what tags are given sounds like the tags need to be cut back.

 

[taskswap]

In fairness, I bet my answer would be totally different if I actually owned one. But having worked my way along a ridgeline to get into a good glassing spot before first light, and seen the ridge on the other side of the valley just dotted with headlights from ATVs, yeah, I can see this side of things for sure...

I do worry way more about drones than anything else. I've never seen one where I hunt, but I own one myself (I do NOT take it hunting) and I know exactly what they're capable of.

 

[Blinddog]

Don't forget to talk about the loved E-Bike which is growing in the hunting arsenal. I have been seeing more and more of these bike out west and in MN. This allows a quiet mode to get further back without spooking game.
ATV's and any motorized being gas or electric or even Pedal should not be allowed during Hunting season on trails or walking paths.
I do understand why people use them when tags are at the price they are and they are using every atvantage to fill the cooler. just don like them being used on hiking trails or paths. get off your *** and hike in like most due.

So yes, I agree hunting needs to get harder again and this does not mean pricing people out of it.
Mangage the herds better, adjust season dates, reduce the amount of seasons. reduce tags for all not just one group and limit technology with in reason.
Make it illegal to group hunt meaning one guy has a tag and 5 others are pin pointing where the animal is and them calling in the shooter with phone, radio or what ever. if this is what they want to do they should go to a game farm.

Get rid of Wilderness rules for NR big game hunting - if we are smart enough to hike, camp, small game hunt in them, we should be able to big game hunt in them without having to subsidise a group to hunt in it. This is on Fedral land, State land the can put what ever rules the State wants.

Sorry for the long rant, out of breath.. Happy DIY Hunting.