Exposed turrets?

[mad_angler]

I'm new to longer range shooting. In the past, I just sighted in at 200 yards and I was good for 0-250 yards.

Now, I'm thinking of trying to work up to 400 yards and I know next to nothing...

My current scope has capped turrets. Do I need exposed turrets? Do others just remove the cap and make adjustments after finding game? How often do you lose your scope caps?

Do exposed turrets have problems with dust, rain and getting bumped while hunting?

 

[Bluumoon]

I'm new to longer range shooting. In the past, I just sighted in at 200 yards and I was good for 0-250 yards.

Now, I'm thinking of trying to work up to 400 yards and I know next to nothing...

My current scope has capped turrets. Do I need exposed turrets? Do others just remove the cap and make adjustments after finding game? How often do you lose your scope caps?

Do exposed turrets have problems with dust, rain and getting bumped while hunting?

Start here

B

Thread 'Compilation of Formidilosus posts'

Apr 16, 2022

Hopefully this doesn't step on any toes. I've found Form’s posts to be incredibly useful and have spent more time than I care to admit digging through his posts. Attached are a few of the "core" posts I have saved for reference and to share with friends. To be clear, this is all Form’s content, some is older work and views may have progressed

@Formidilosus Thank you! If you have put all this in a book/website/ program let me know and I'll buy it. If not, you have a heck of a start, sign me up when you do. If the post violates decorum, please let me know and I'll happily delete...

• Bluumoon
• Replies: 59
• Forum: Firearms

• 

 

[Wrench]

A gun for less than 400, turrets are just a source of confusion.

Unless you're shooting a 600gr bullet at 1k fps.....I'd just hold elevation and shoot.

On my 270win that kept me fed for my youth, I knew that the point where the cross hair got fat while on 9x was the point of impact at 440yds.....and working backwards to zero was simple.

 

[eyeguy]

Since this is in elk section assume elk zero for 400 yards. As said above likely most simple to hold over using fine and heavy crosshair junction as reference. Save money on new scope and practice more. Build or buy more ammo and practice from field hunting positions and getting in those positions quickly.

 

[Jack321]

Not a fan of exposed turrets or dialing.

I shoot hold overs.

In Montana on a pack hunt with horses and scabbards. My brothers 300 win mag was off by near a foot and a half when we came back after getting bumped. He had a Vortex Viper Gen 1 with exposed turrets and a zero stop. He didn't set the zero stop perfectly (gen 1s have the old "shim" system.)

He didnt have shot at an elk but when we got back he noticed it was moved. Took it to the range. A full 18 inches off zero.

He swears he'll never shoot with exposed turrets again. Now he has a FFP Arken with capped turrets.

Thats what me and my family prefers. I'm not a dialer. Hold overs just "make sense" to me in my mind (as does MOA). Ive read a ton on this form about MILs, dialing, zero stops, etc. And while I'm sure that stuff has its place and works fine and dandy for a lot of guys, but I'm a "murphy's law" kind of guy. Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. So i try to minimize things "going wrong."

 

[Elkhntr08]

I’ve got 2 Leupold VX5HD scopes with CDS that I’ve never cashed in. I know where both shoot out to 500 yards and just hold over. My antelope stepped out a 485, just held over and he was in the freezer and on the wall. Remember KISS.

 

[Speaks]

Hold overs are a lot less precise than dialing, especially if you are talking about a duplex recital, one with mill hatch marks makes it doable. It will still be a lot more of a learning curve. 400 yards is about the limit of where it is feasible.

What is your current scope and cartridge?

 

[Jack321]

Hold overs are a lot less precise than dialing, especially if you are talking about a duplex recital, one with mill hatch marks makes it doable. It will still be a lot more of a learning curve. 400 yards is about the limit of where it is feasible.

What is your current scope and cartridge?

True, but I also hunt enough that Im a "MOA guy--Minute of Animal"

Im able to routinely shoot out to 450 and do so often. And I have several calibers in Ruger m77, Rem700, Tikka T3x's with FFP scopes.

I know guys on RokSlide crap on them. (If it aint a 223/6mm, with a RokStock, Tikka with a Nightforce or TenMile scope then guys crap all over anything else.)

But I'm a Vortex guy. Never had an issue with them and I like their Christmas Tree retical with 2MOA increments. Also had deveral binos from them and very happy with the value & bang for your buck. Most of my scopes are Diamondback Tacticals. I realize they're exposed turrets, so I tape them with electrical tape. I dont have the budget maybe some guys do. But its never failed me and every time Im sighting a new one in, or re-verifying zero before a hunt, they have always tracked and am very happy with them.

My "one gun" that Ive put money into is my Tikka 300 win mag, and that is topped with a Nightforce SHV with the F1 reticle. Thats what I took my elk with last year.

To me. Dialing probably is more precise, but Ive been on hunts where animals are moving and I have to wait for the to stop and by the time I'd have time to dial, they move. Ive had it where I see em and barely have enough time to range let alone move my turrets.

I also worry about bumping them like.my brother did and not knowing.

Again, i like to keep it simple.

But Im also the guy still driving a 2004 truck with regular radio and a CD player. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

 

[voltage]

400 is scary when you haven’t done it before. Once you get to 400, it’s easy and you’ll want to practice further. Dialing is fun. If you have exposed turrets, you can still hold over, so why not get them?

Get a scope with exposed turrets. I really like the Zeiss V4 for the money. Bigger fan of the NX8 if you enjoy nice things.

 

[Speaks]

True, but I also hunt enough that Im a "MOA guy--Minute of Animal"

Im able to routinely shoot out to 450 and do so often. And I have several calibers in Ruger m77, Rem700, Tikka T3x's with FFP scopes.

I know guys on RokSlide crap on them. (If it aint a 223/6mm, with a RokStock, Tikka with a Nightforce or TenMile scope then guys crap all over anything else.)

But I'm a Vortex guy. Never had an issue with them and I like their Christmas Tree retical with 2MOA increments. Also had deveral binos from them and very happy with the value & bang for your buck. Most of my scopes are Diamondback Tacticals. I realize they're exposed turrets, so I tape them with electrical tape. I dont have the budget maybe some guys do. But its never failed me and every time Im sighting a new one in, or re-verifying zero before a hunt, they have always tracked and am very happy with them.

My "one gun" that Ive put money into is my Tikka 300 win mag, and that is topped with a Nightforce SHV with the F1 reticle. Thats what I took my elk with last year.

To me. Dialing probably is more precise, but Ive been on hunts where animals are moving and I have to wait for the to stop and by the time I'd have time to dial, they move. Ive had it where I see em and barely have enough time to range let alone move my turrets.

I also worry about bumping them like.my brother did and not knowing.

Again, i like to keep it simple.

But Im also the guy still driving a 2004 truck with regular radio and a CD player. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Hey if it works it works. And if your scope has been proven reliable then great whatever the brand.

I think there is also a big difference between holding over with a hatch marked recital and just holding over.

Anyway if someone is just leaning to shoot longer I would still recommend dialing. There are multiple ways to get it done though. I dial if I can but have no issues holding 1 1.5, or 2 mils over in the field. Initially taking out the hold over variable and focusing on the shot is easier though I think.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'm a Leupold guy and I have VXIII's on all my hunting rifles. I also have their ballistic turrets, which is used on the elevation (top) turret only. Never have lost or had a problem with them in over 20 years use. They are great!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Not a fan of exposed turrets or dialing.

I shoot hold overs.

In Montana on a pack hunt with horses and scabbards. My brothers 300 win mag was off by near a foot and a half when we came back after getting bumped. He had a Vortex Viper Gen 1 with exposed turrets and a zero stop. He didn't set the zero stop perfectly (gen 1s have the old "shim" system.)

He didnt have shot at an elk but when we got back he noticed it was moved. Took it to the range. A full 18 inches off zero.

He swears he'll never shoot with exposed turrets again. Now he has a FFP Arken with capped turrets.

Thats what me and my family prefers. I'm not a dialer. Hold overs just "make sense" to me in my mind (as does MOA). Ive read a ton on this form about MILs, dialing, zero stops, etc. And while I'm sure that stuff has its place and works fine and dandy for a lot of guys, but I'm a "murphy's law" kind of guy. Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. So i try to minimize things "going wrong."

Exposed turrets weren't the problem, that's one of the worst scopes for holding zero.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Exposed turrets are a non issue when hunting, and can significantly improve accuracy for shots beyond mpbr. They are also a very common feature on the handful of scopes that reliably hold zero, so you kind of have to get on board with them if you want consistent performance.

Buy a swfa 6x or 3-9, test for yourself. If you end up hating it you'll really recoup most of the money in the classifieds.

 

[mad_angler]

Hold overs are a lot less precise than dialing, especially if you are talking about a duplex recital, one with mill hatch marks makes it doable. It will still be a lot more of a learning curve. 400 yards is about the limit of where it is feasible.

What is your current scope and cartridge?

My rifle is a Tikka 7mm Rem mag.
My ammo is 167 grain factory ELD-X.
My scope is Vortex Viper HS 4x16 x 44 (https://vortexoptics.com/viper-hs-4-16x44-dead-hold-bdc-moa.html).

 

[Chris in TN]

Inside of 400 yards there is no genuine *need* for exposed turrets if you have a decently flat shooting setup. Even a duplex reticle with, perhaps, a 250 yard zero and using a 3-4-5MOA lower end of the 'duplex' as a 325-400 yard aiming point, will get you to 400 yards with most scopes.

I'm not saying that's ideal. I'm saying it'll work.

Beyond maybe 400 yards, if you ever dial once, you'll be hooked; it is far more precise. Guesstimating holdover points never works as well as you think unless the target just happens to stand exactly at your lower reticle point.

I have never had a turret move a single click in the field, but I don't hunt on horses so can't speak to that particular problem with scabbards. I do, however, try to check the scope every time I glance at the turrets. Get in that habit and you'll be fine. Perhaps the hardest potential failure point there isn't the scope moving a click, it's you taking a shot then forgetting to return to zero. I've been guilty of that. They won't dial themselves back to zero.

 

[Bluumoon]

The amount of hot garbage in this thread is impressive. OP I gave you a place to learn about actual/repeatable/self verifiable processes.

If you want to fling lead and maybe hit stuff on occasion at 400 yards by all means holdover with crap scopes and tuck that gold ring under your pillow for good luck.

If you want to know you are going to hit a target I gave you a starting point.

 

[mad_angler]

The amount of hot garbage in this thread is impressive. OP I gave you a place to learn about actual/repeatable/self verifiable processes.

If you want to fling lead and maybe hit stuff on occasion at 400 yards by all means holdover with crap scopes and tuck that gold ring under your pillow for good luck.

If you want to know you are going to hit a target I gave you a starting point.

Wow. I think you mighta had too much coffee this morning. Or not enough..

I went to your threads and read the one that applies. I like the approach and will probably go that way.

I haven't replied one way or another inside this thread. I have only replied with the specifics of my setup.

 

[TimberHunter]

Hold overs are a lot less precise than dialing, especially if you are talking about a duplex recital, one with mill hatch marks makes it doable. It will still be a lot more of a learning curve. 400 yards is about the limit of where it is feasible.

What is your current scope and cartridge?

For a handful of years before going to dial mil scopes, I used a BDC reticle. I adjusted the zero and which bullet I was shooting to best fit the BDC so the hash marks lined up with 300,400,500,600.

I had a lot of success out to 540 yards. Got burned on a longer shot (non wounded animal) a few years ago and that pushed me into mils and dial scopes.

For someone that is new to hunting/shooting further, BDC can greatly simplify the learning curve. But ultimately it’s a crunch that can bite out at further distances.

OP, just know wind becomes a real thing at 500/600 yards. Can also be a real thing at 400 but not usually enough to move a bullet much more than about 12” (wind mph dependent) so just hold a little left or right if you feel wind and if you truly keep the distance 400 and under


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bluumoon]

Wow. I think you mighta had too much coffee this morning. Or not enough..

I went to your threads and read the one that applies. I like the approach and will probably go that way.

I haven't replied one way or another inside this thread. I have only replied with the specifics of my setup.

Prob not enough. It’s annoying to see people pass off absolute bad information as fact.

 

[mad_angler]

... OP I gave you a place to learn about actual/repeatable/self verifiable processes.
...

If you want to know you are going to hit a target I gave you a starting point.

I went back to the links. I found one that I think would allow me to zero the rifle and then create an accurate, customized DOPE chart. Based on my skill level, I already sorta had that since I am using common ammo/caliber.

I didn't see a form answer to my original question...
At 400 yards, I need to adjust 4.2 MOA. Do I need exposed turrets to do that? Or do I remove my scope caps for each adjustment? (Or do I learn where 4.2 MOA is on my reticle based on recommendations in this thread)