Expanding Mandrels

[steelheadmike]

I'm relatively new to reloading so please bear with me.

Looking to try out an expanding mandrel. I'm currently using the Hornady dies (custom-grade., ie. no bushing) and just sizing as normal.

If the brass is already probably being overworked by the current process, is there any downside to using an expander mandrel instead of running the button through it?

I am growing less fond of the expanding button and spindle on the hornady dies. My goal is more consistency and less possible issues with the hornady spindle. I don't mind the extra step.

I'd rather not step up to a bushing die (for now) and I don't have any way to anneal. Is it even worth it? That might be the real question.

 

[sierracharlie338]

You can always farm out your annealing. Some people offer it on forums for the members, usually at a reasonable price.

As far as expanding mandrels, I switched to them and am in the process of getting them for all calibers I shoot. I feel there is a better and more consistent neck tension than the balls and the mandrels don’t seem to mark up the inside of the case mouth near as much. Just my opinion, no testing has been done.

 

[Bater]

Years ago I cut my runout/sd/es nearly in half by removing the guts from all my dies and expanding via mandrels. Usually .002 under bullet diameter is a good place to start. There is no downside if you don't mind the extra step. 21st Century offers affordable yet high quality mandrels and mandrel dies.

 

[wind gypsy]

Downside is doubling the # of pulls on a press unless you're sizing on a progressive and the cost of additional equipment. Those are notable enough that I haven't used my mandrels for quite a while but i also use dies that don't work the hell out of the necks.

 

[Schmo]

You can always farm out your annealing. Some people offer it on forums for the members, usually at a reasonable price

I’d be willing to give guys a good deal on annealing.

 

[HuntHarder]

Since I have switched to using mandrels, my spreads have shrank considerably.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Since I have switched to using mandrels, my spreads have shrank considerably.

Do you have any data from your testing? I'd like to test this myself but I don't trust my optical chronograph to provide accurate readings and have been avoiding spending the money on a Garmin lol.

 

[Bater]

Do you have any data from your testing? I'd like to test this myself but I don't trust my optical chronograph to provide accurate readings and have been avoiding spending the money on a Garmin lol.

Without a reliable chronograph, just trust the target and your waterline at distance.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Without a reliable chronograph, just trust the target and your waterline at distance.

Definitely do that indeed and have never noticed any issues that wide velocity ES would indicate, just would like to see results from an actual test with reliable equipment.

 

[HuntHarder]

Do you have any data from your testing? I'd like to test this myself but I don't trust my optical chronograph to provide accurate readings and have been avoiding spending the money on a Garmin lol.

I had to edit real quick as I accidently added en ELd-m load. These are both 130gr VLD 42.5 gr H4350. The one that is labeled "man" on the end was sized using a mandrel.

 

[BBob]

Likely an unpopular or not in the majority opinion around here but both annealing and expanding mandrels are a waste of time for a field rifle. You can get a rifle to shoot extremely well without either. Oh and case life can be quite good to great without annealing as well. A standard die with a button can be and likely will be just fine. I prefer a bushing die alone, no expander button and no separate mandrel expanders. Many LR BR (and SR BR) competitors agree.

In summary: Most of the crap you think will help does not, especially on a field rifle.

 

[HuntHarder]

Bbob, you are more than likely right, but I enjoy messing with my reloads. Trying to see what different process's does to FPS, spread, accuracy and whatever else. In reality, all this is extra and probably not needed.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I had to edit real quick as I accidently added en ELd-m load. These are both 130gr VLD 42.5 gr H4350. The one that is labeled "man" on the end was sized using a mandrel.

Damn, that's definitely outside the expected variability of that sample size so I would assume it's actually making an improvement. I've pretty much reverted back to keeping it as simple as possible but those are the kind of results that whether they truly show up on target with with small samples or not, they give you a bit more confidence that it's not a load/velocity issue.

 

[HuntHarder]

I just had a buddy who tried Mandrels last week, and he managed 2- 3 rd strings that were both insanely low on spread. I told him to load larger strings to see the confirmed difference, but he was pumped at his initial results.

1 load is 212 eldx and the other is 200 eldx out of a 300 win. ignore the title of his strings both saying 200. the lower FPS is the 212's

 

[Lawnboi]

It’s an extra pull of the press. I’ll use a mandrel on virgin brass sometimes but largely gravitated to using a mandrel in a die (sac) because I don’t like extra steps.

There’s a lot of ways to end up at consistent ammo, mandrels are just another tool in the tool box.

 

[seand]

…..

If the brass is already probably being overworked by the current process, is there any downside to using an expander mandrel instead of running the button through it? …..

No downsides except an extra pull of the handle if using a single stage.

Personally I think a mandrel is more important than weighed charges. Add a case kicker and dump powder and you will way more than make up the time lost by using a mandrel with a single stage.

I mandrel everything after FL sizing with std dies with the expander removed but recapping pin installed. Except for AR blaster ammo.

 

[steelheadmike]

Thanks for all the replies. My problem (with damn near everything) is that I over-analyze and then I like to tinker to see if I optimize. It's not like my current process isn't working. My SDs are usually 8-14, depending on which load I'm currently using, so they're not horrible but I'd like to see if I just attain more consistency. I've upgraded my scale to see if that helps, as well.

I may give the mandrels a shot, if for no other reason that I'm not crazy about the hornady spindle.

 

[Lawnboi]

The hard part isn’t making a good load. The hard part is keeping that load doing that through the life of the brass/barrel.

 

[Gadjet]

This is a recent load I worked up for my 7PRC. Used Redding type S bushing die with no expander and no mandrel. I thought these were pretty good numbers without worrying about the extra step of using a mandrel die.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I just had a buddy who tried Mandrels last week, and he managed 2- 3 rd strings that were both insanely low on spread.

Well I'm a cheap ass, but a very curious one. Just ordered a couple tool steel pin gages off amazon and I'm gonna see if I can chuck them up in a collet bullet puller and if it works I'll test vs expander button in a standard FL die. I ordered each .003" under diameter because I haven't seen extra tension do any harm, and both Bryan Litz and Alex Wheeler have recommended doing so as well, and they know more than I probably ever will.