Ever Used Your Sidearm While Hunting?

[SwiftShot]

I know that. Please show me a link for 30 inches of pen with a 40.

Two different types of ammo for two different use cases. I referenced hard cast and you brought up traditional self defense ammo.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I know that. Please show me a link for 30 inches of pen with a 40.

If you personally have an issue with the numbers from the Buffalo Bore web site, please take it up with them. As you will likely find fault with any other source online for your specific question, I do recommend that you do your own testing using whichever method tickles your fancy; if not feel free to spend hours on Youtube and finding fault with their results. A better option is for you to kill a mature bear and shoot it with your cartridge of choice from whichever angle(s) you prefer. Post those results up on Rokslide and folks would love it.

Numbers give an idea but are not guaranteed to be 100% accurate 100% of the time in 100% of circumstance.

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This next part is for demonstration purposes and I'm not saying this is what I'd use in brown bear country.

I have a 380 ACP that does occasionally go out with me due to it fitting nicely in a hip pouch on my pack (great for day trips in lower risk areas). Buffalo Bore claims 20"+ of penetration. Other sites have done testing in gel and came up with 41" of penetration with the BB standard pressure hard cast load and the +p hard cast load went 45". Don't know how accurate nor representative those are, but there is plenty of room for error and still be effective for a lot of situations in the field.

I still have not heard of a black bear with a skull measuring 20" long; if there is then I'd truly love to see it. But I have two skulls on-hand at the moment from two AZ desert black bears; both were in the 325-350# range so they're decent examples. One scores 19.5" and the other 20.5". When measuring from the front off the mouth to the back of the brain cavity, one is 11" and the other is 11.5" (obviously there will be hide, fat and muscle on a live bear). So the BB "claimed" numbers can be off 40-45% and there still is plenty of penetration. A person can shove the wimpy 380 against the bear's nose and likely splatter some grey matter.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Actually, I have plenty of experience with snakes, and have handled many. Cottonmouths are thick and intimidating looking. When they gape with their mouth wide open and fangs exposed, it will definitely get your attention. I’m not disputing your experiences, but I do believe most people that claim they have been chased by a cottonmouth, are simply ignorant, and they are mistaking a snake moving in their direction for being chased. There is no upside for the snake if he chases a human. That would be the equivalent of a person chasing a sow grizzly with cubs. Doesn’t make sense.

Well, it seems the snakes in my neck of the woods missed the "no chase/aggression" Memo.

 

[TSAMP]

I started this journey by carrying a large caliber wheel gun shooting hard cast, to a G20 with hard cast to a G19 with hard cast and now carry a PMR 30 22 WMR. I want hits on target and adequate depth of penetration into the CNS.

You really trust that PMR that much? I've had one for a month and shot it maybe 12 times and had 3 FTF with the reccomended cci ammo.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Mine has run flawlessly

 

[tkhuntsman]

Sure, but in the vast majority of those instances, a firearm would not deter the bite. Bites mostly occur because people are unaware that a snake is even in the area.

Same with bears

 

[SwiftShot]

If you personally have an issue with the numbers from the Buffalo Bore web site, please take it up with them. As you will likely find fault with any other source online for your specific question, I do recommend that you do your own testing using whichever method tickles your fancy; if not feel free to spend hours on Youtube and finding fault with their results. A better option is for you to kill a mature bear and shoot it with your cartridge of choice from whichever angle(s) you prefer. Post those results up on Rokslide and folks would love it.

Numbers give an idea but are not guaranteed to be 100% accurate 100% of the time in 100% of circumstance.

----
This next part is for demonstration purposes and I'm not saying this is what I'd use in brown bear country.

I have a 380 ACP that does occasionally go out with me due to it fitting nicely in a hip pouch on my pack (great for day trips in lower risk areas). Buffalo Bore claims 20"+ of penetration. Other sites have done testing in gel and came up with 41" of penetration with the BB standard pressure hard cast load and the +p hard cast load went 45". Don't know how accurate nor representative those are, but there is plenty of room for error and still be effective for a lot of situations in the field.

I still have not heard of a black bear with a skull measuring 20" long; if there is then I'd truly love to see it. But I have two skulls on-hand at the moment from two AZ desert black bears; both were in the 325-350# range so they're decent examples. One scores 19.5" and the other 20.5". When measuring from the front off the mouth to the back of the brain cavity, one is 11" and the other is 11.5" (obviously there will be hide, fat and muscle on a live bear). So the BB "claimed" numbers can be off 40-45% and there still is plenty of penetration. A person can shove the wimpy 380 against the bear's nose and likely splatter some grey matter.

Well every bear I have shot has been with a bow. So the penetration thing of a side arm or rifle is not my thing. I thought the whole discussion was on protection from bears, like the one that worry me and those ones are not black. I have never had a problem with black bears here in Washington, well aside from getting close enough to stick one. They tend to run when they see you. I do agree you could probably pop a black bear with a 380. Hell I have chased them off my back porch with a Red Ryder. MY HOA does not like me killing things. I would not pack a side arm for Black Bear. The Brown Bear is a completely different level of Pucker Factor. After a few run ins with them I can say I felt my 300 Win Mag was inadequate to the task. It might be overkill but I picked up the Taurus Raging Hunter 5 inch in 460 SW for my next trip this fall to the North Country. The only problem now is finding ammo.

In the Lower 48 outside of Grizzly country I think any hand gun you would use for 2 legged tweekers is the correct caliber as that is probably the biggest threat.

 

[tkhuntsman]

Think you missed the point.

While the results of a bear attack can be horrific, the likelihood of it occurring is extremely low.

Despite the volume of Rokslide members and their time spent in the field every year, how many documented cases of attacks on them are there every year? How many of these have resulted in their deaths?

Montana has had 4 grizzly bear caused deaths in the last 2 years alone and spring has just started after a rough fall with no berries and a long winter. I'm betting there are gonna be some conflicts in the next 2.5 months.

 

[swe048]

Never had to draw my handgun to defend myself while in the woods but had a coyote go after my English Setter. It chased her back to me growling and snarling like they do, in the excitement I shot a little too quick and missed, we were just out for a walk, so I didn't have a shotgun, wish I would have, that yote was only about 15 yards away.

 

[Stalker69]

Pistol ammo is cheaper. Broadheads are getting expensive! I haven't had to use a pistol yet tho.
For those using a sidearm for grouse, do you use birdshot? I thought about getting some for my 9mm but read that it wouldn't eject.

My dad had a 357 he carried. We tried bird shot on grouse one time, it sucked, from like 10- 12 feet and those birds walked through 6 rounds or what ever his ruger held. And none of them so much as lost a single feather. I carry a 22 pistol (s) and have killed a bunch of grouse, and cotton tails for dinners with them over the years. Never again will I try bird shot, ever !

 

[Cowbell]

A cottonmouth wants nothing to do with people, and as far as the chasing stories go those are nothing more than myths. If someone is standing in between the snake, and where that snake wants to go, then it would likely move towards them, but that does not mean that the snake is chasing that person.

I know an older gentleman who lives in south Georgia and he has caught pit vipers for over 50 years. He sold some snakes to the Ross Allen reptile Institute back in the 1970s. He has as much experience with water moccasins as anyone walking this planet, and he is adamant that they do not chase people. He will go a step further and state that they are the pit viper that is probably least likely to bite a human. His experience is backed up by numerous herpetologists, who have published on this topic.

You don't know what you are talking about. Cottonmouths are super territorial during mating season. They will absolutely get in the boat with you or chase you. If you don't know, you don't know.

 

[Jbogg]

You don't know what you are talking about. Cottonmouths are super territorial during mating season. They will absolutely get in the boat with you or chase you. If you don't know, you don't know.

Fake News! But make sure to shoot them all.

 

[chindits]

Nope. Never carry in the backcountry.

However, in the front country I used it working once and car camping once at an area that gets a lot of dirt bike use.

 

[Cowbell]

Fake News! But make sure to shoot them all.

Yeah tell that to the handful of snakes that I have had to whip with my fishing pole until they quit coming after me.

 

[Woozy]

Yes , lots of snakes in Tx

 

[Crusader]

You really trust that PMR that much? I've had one for a month and shot it maybe 12 times and had 3 FTF with the reccomended cci ammo.

I have owned a PMR30 for a few years. I have tried maybe a half-dozen different brands/loads of ammo and the only one which has shown no FTF is the CCI Maxi-Mag. Everything else was horrible, from the lightest weight bullets to the heaviest. At this point there's no way I'd consider using the PMR for a self-defense weapon. It sure is fun to shoot on targets, though! Maybe I'll give the Hornady ammo a try, to see how it does.

 

[Colby]

I recently joined the PMR club.
I ran a 50 pack of gold dots through it with no malfunctions.
Extremely small sample size but so far so good.

 

[mi650]

I shot a squirrel once with a 1911. Does that count? Finished off a buck with my Shield.

I do get bears on my land sometimes, and always carry when bowhunting.

 

[WCB]

Besides finishing off a couple animals...only ever pulled mine once. I was guiding a archery elk hunter in MT. Say a nice bull moose and we were basically just finding a place to rest for the afternoon and ear lunch so decided to call at the moose a little. Bull came in to 50ish yards and client was taking pictures.

At first he just seemed kind of curious more than anything the all at once his temperament changed and really started grunting back and doing the ole' stiff legged sway right to us. I heard something behind us and out pops a cow moose about 20 yards. Stepped out and tried to get the bull to stop but he would not. Pulled the old smoke wagon and we started moving out from between he two. He was within 5 yards at one point. Client got some good pictures.

 

[Zeke6951]

I have never pulled a side arm on a hunt. I rarely ever carry one. I have seen a lot of Cotton Mouths. One exceptionally cantankerous CM in southern IL. would follow up and down the creek (in the water) anyone that walked along the bank near a temporary logging bridge. He seemed to swim sorta sideways always facing whoever walked along the bank. It didn't matter when you arrived that old snake would swim up to the edge of the water and never seem to take his eyes off you.
I have seen several others laying on a beaver dam where water spilled over just a bit. I seems they like those kind of places. Rarely can a CM be flushed from such a spot. They turn toward an intruder and stand their ground. I can't say all will but most that I have seen will. I have shot a few while frog gigging but mostly just try to go around them when I see them.