Epsilon vs. Vaportrail Gen Integrate 8x
- Thread starter cvanman
- Start date
Billy Goat
“MOMMY”
I don't have experience with the VaporTrail, but I did contact them for some information and got a better picture of what I was concerned about.
I prefer to have the rest supporting the arrow closer to the riser than what a lot of hunting rests are able to do.
Thought the VaporTrail might set in a little closer, but it doesn't.
Seems like a good rest, just much overdraw doesn't work well for me with a reflex riser.
I prefer to have the rest supporting the arrow closer to the riser than what a lot of hunting rests are able to do.
Thought the VaporTrail might set in a little closer, but it doesn't.
Seems like a good rest, just much overdraw doesn't work well for me with a reflex riser.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 80
Are you talking about the victor like the one pictured in Billys post, or the first iteration of the Vapertrail integrate that had the old school L arm?
Trying to keep it some what short, I have mounted and shot all 3. None have given me an issue. Have hunted with the gen 8 and Epsilon both and lots of miles on them.
The gen 8 simplicity is great, a proven platform that was adapted to integrate. Depending on the bow and setup (mathews specifically) it doesn't mount as clean as the Epsilon imo and you will need quiver spacers if running as low pro as possible. Rest adjustments were easier than the Epsilon V1 and the rest is lighter. For me this rest was more plug and play and although options for tuning were less, I didn't notice them.
The epsilon v1 mounts cleaner, I never liked the screw placement for vertical adjustment, and had some timing issues with arrows burning thru rest blades, resolved easily enough. The v2 fixed a couple of those issues.
The victor has been the perfect blend of both this summer and will see how it hunts.
Trying to keep it some what short, I have mounted and shot all 3. None have given me an issue. Have hunted with the gen 8 and Epsilon both and lots of miles on them.
The gen 8 simplicity is great, a proven platform that was adapted to integrate. Depending on the bow and setup (mathews specifically) it doesn't mount as clean as the Epsilon imo and you will need quiver spacers if running as low pro as possible. Rest adjustments were easier than the Epsilon V1 and the rest is lighter. For me this rest was more plug and play and although options for tuning were less, I didn't notice them.
The epsilon v1 mounts cleaner, I never liked the screw placement for vertical adjustment, and had some timing issues with arrows burning thru rest blades, resolved easily enough. The v2 fixed a couple of those issues.
The victor has been the perfect blend of both this summer and will see how it hunts.
justin davis
WKR
Hamskea hands down
Boles8
FNG
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2020
- Messages
- 11
Another vote for the hamskea
Billy Goat
“MOMMY”
I'd be curious to know why y'all think the Hamskea is better?
roosiebull
WKR
I think it’s better because I chose it
The only vapor trails I have used was an old school limb driver and new version pro v, didn’t have any reliability issues with any, but the hamskea has turned into a “if it ain’t broke”
If the new VT’s end up being the best rest ever made, I will live happily in my own bubble of ignorance, and will be ok with it
Billy Goat
“MOMMY”
I think it’s better because I chose it
The only vapor trails I have used was an old school limb driver and new version pro v, didn’t have any reliability issues with any, but the hamskea has turned into a “if it ain’t broke”
If the new VT’s end up being the best rest ever made, I will live happily in my own bubble of ignorance, and will be ok with it
The picture I posted was actually of the Victor, not the gen 8 whatever. Some differences between those 2. The difference between a Victor and a Hamskea is pretty minimal. The tension adjustment on the Victor is pretty slick.
Shooter Mike
WKR
I have used several Vapor Trail rests (to include the new Victor which I returned for refund), and several Hamskea rests over the years.
What bow are you planning to use the rest? This will make a good bit of difference. The Vapor Trail rests have a less than ideal fit on the shorter ATA Mathews bows with angled roller cable guards. Even the new Victor- once it's installed you cannot access the horizontal lock down screw due to it's location under the angled cable roller guard. And, the Victor was so noisy it made me not want to shoot my bow. Night and day difference than the GI8X, which was very quiet, but also barely fit on the Lift X 29.5. Couldn't get perfect center shot with it and had to move the limb shift more to compensate. Couldn't raise the rest up to the correct height so had to adjust nock point on the string more than I with the Hamskea and QAD. The GI8X is among the quietest rests I've used though - as quiet as the QAD MX2. But the Hamskea ... it's quiet too, and has never been noticeable. I likely noticed the difference between the Victor and the GI8X because I took the GI8X off to install the Victor. But then the screws stripped out on the GI8X and had to wait a few weeks to get a new bracket after having to drill out the GI8X mount. "It's in the mail, it's in the mail, it's in the mail" .... promises, promises. Lesson learned on my part.
I currently have the Epsilon V2 on my Lift X 29.5, and it fits in all ways better without any issues and allows me to adjust it however it would need to be adjusted without limitations. Aside from the adjustment mechanisms, you can adjust the Epsilon V2 and the Victor identically. There's not one thing you can do with the Victor that you can't do with the Hamskea V2. The Victor was built to compete with the V2. The other problem with the Victor is the whale tail launcher it ships with. You will likely need to fiddle-fart around with rest height and launcher angle to ensure it doesn't contact your riser. It's very wide. It's also hard plastic, so you'll need to buy or come up with some sort of silencing felt for the launcher if you're hunting with it. The Epsilon V2 launcher doesn't contact my Lift X riser and the launcher arm is of a more appropriate size for what it's intended to do.
The GI8X though, if it fits, is a great choice. One thing that Vapor Trail had going for it was the vertical launcher arm, but they gave that up on the Victor and instead went a more problematic way with the obnoxiously sized whale tail. On some risers, there will be problems with the whale tail hitting the inside curve of of the riser shelf, for no other reason than being way over-sized. The Victor is a step backwards for Vapor Trail. They even spoke with Mathews while in the prototype stage and was told that the Victor wouldn't fit the RS, and was advised that it's questionable if it will fit the 29.5 ATA bows. I can confirm it doesn't fit the 29.5 bows, yet they make no disclaimer about fitment on their website. And good luck getting a refund if you buy direct from them. I had to get the bank involved because they couldn't figure out how to process it. Until I involved the bank, i received a $10 refund???? weird. And not to go off on a VT tangent, but over the years I've had 4 different sets of strings/cables from them, and there's been an issue with each and every set. No joke. No exaggeration. I can tell you this - they put their brass speed nocks on with manual hand tools and don't always get them tight enough and they make a buzz sound each time you shoot. I figured that out after reducing it to that, and removing them. solved that problem, but then there's loose strand problems. serving that's so long you can't install a peep sight. cables that wont stop stretching. a string that continues to twist 1/2 way around at full draw... VT just sucks at building strings. that's all there is too it, and now they can't build a rest that fits one of the top selling bows on the market. Given all of my interactions and after this most recent one with Vapor Trail, they're a company from whom I will never use another one of their products.
What bow are you planning to use the rest? This will make a good bit of difference. The Vapor Trail rests have a less than ideal fit on the shorter ATA Mathews bows with angled roller cable guards. Even the new Victor- once it's installed you cannot access the horizontal lock down screw due to it's location under the angled cable roller guard. And, the Victor was so noisy it made me not want to shoot my bow. Night and day difference than the GI8X, which was very quiet, but also barely fit on the Lift X 29.5. Couldn't get perfect center shot with it and had to move the limb shift more to compensate. Couldn't raise the rest up to the correct height so had to adjust nock point on the string more than I with the Hamskea and QAD. The GI8X is among the quietest rests I've used though - as quiet as the QAD MX2. But the Hamskea ... it's quiet too, and has never been noticeable. I likely noticed the difference between the Victor and the GI8X because I took the GI8X off to install the Victor. But then the screws stripped out on the GI8X and had to wait a few weeks to get a new bracket after having to drill out the GI8X mount. "It's in the mail, it's in the mail, it's in the mail" .... promises, promises. Lesson learned on my part.
I currently have the Epsilon V2 on my Lift X 29.5, and it fits in all ways better without any issues and allows me to adjust it however it would need to be adjusted without limitations. Aside from the adjustment mechanisms, you can adjust the Epsilon V2 and the Victor identically. There's not one thing you can do with the Victor that you can't do with the Hamskea V2. The Victor was built to compete with the V2. The other problem with the Victor is the whale tail launcher it ships with. You will likely need to fiddle-fart around with rest height and launcher angle to ensure it doesn't contact your riser. It's very wide. It's also hard plastic, so you'll need to buy or come up with some sort of silencing felt for the launcher if you're hunting with it. The Epsilon V2 launcher doesn't contact my Lift X riser and the launcher arm is of a more appropriate size for what it's intended to do.
The GI8X though, if it fits, is a great choice. One thing that Vapor Trail had going for it was the vertical launcher arm, but they gave that up on the Victor and instead went a more problematic way with the obnoxiously sized whale tail. On some risers, there will be problems with the whale tail hitting the inside curve of of the riser shelf, for no other reason than being way over-sized. The Victor is a step backwards for Vapor Trail. They even spoke with Mathews while in the prototype stage and was told that the Victor wouldn't fit the RS, and was advised that it's questionable if it will fit the 29.5 ATA bows. I can confirm it doesn't fit the 29.5 bows, yet they make no disclaimer about fitment on their website. And good luck getting a refund if you buy direct from them. I had to get the bank involved because they couldn't figure out how to process it. Until I involved the bank, i received a $10 refund???? weird. And not to go off on a VT tangent, but over the years I've had 4 different sets of strings/cables from them, and there's been an issue with each and every set. No joke. No exaggeration. I can tell you this - they put their brass speed nocks on with manual hand tools and don't always get them tight enough and they make a buzz sound each time you shoot. I figured that out after reducing it to that, and removing them. solved that problem, but then there's loose strand problems. serving that's so long you can't install a peep sight. cables that wont stop stretching. a string that continues to twist 1/2 way around at full draw... VT just sucks at building strings. that's all there is too it, and now they can't build a rest that fits one of the top selling bows on the market. Given all of my interactions and after this most recent one with Vapor Trail, they're a company from whom I will never use another one of their products.
Shooter Mike
WKR
Because they fit better and they're quieter. The only exception to quieter is the GI8X, which is as quiet as the Hamskea. The Victor was made in an attempt to compete with the Hamskea. The Hamskea outsells it still because it fits the bows that sells the most. The Vapor Trail rests do not fit the shorter ATA Mathews bows due to where the horizontal adjustment screw is in relation to the roller cable guard. The GI8X doesn't fit correctly because of where the pivot arm is in relation to the roller cable guard rod. Vapor Trail builds rests without consideration to the market, and when they're told "I'm not sure it will fit our bows", they don't verify, and instead send to production. With regards to production, they don't do anything in house, and are beholden to another company for all of their machining, which doesn't allow them the controls they need to make necessary changes. Other companies can do R&D. VT cannot. This is why they have so many re-designs on their rests. Within days of releasing the Victor they're already doing re-design. I know this through direct conversations with them over the past several months.
The Victor was made to compete with Epsilon V2, and has copied it's attributes. Instead they should have stayed the course with vertical drop launcher arm and made the GI8X more compact. The Victor was so obnoxiously noisy on my bow that I didn't even want to shoot it anymore until I took it off. Talking with them, it's the metal on metal stops of the launcher arm. The GI8X has a rubber bumper that the launcher arm comes to rest against.
As I understand it, you're looking for a rest that at full draw is close to the riser. The QAD MX2 is the closest to the riser that I know of. If you'd like I can send you some pics of a QAD MX2, GI8X and Epsilon V2 on my bow. The Epsilon, at full draw is closer than the Victor and the GI8X, but farther than the QAD.
Billy Goat
“MOMMY”
I had seen the Victor, went through a few email exchanges to end up with the pics I posted. Originally I thought it might sit farther forward, but its about like the Epsilon.
I have 3 or 4 of the integrate rests, MX and MX2's, was just checking with VT incase this was an option closer to what I wanted. Actually first went to the integrate just because it gets closer the the berger.
I had specifically asked why Hamskea over VT earlier because the responses read as simple fan boy posts. Your responses were detailed and what they should be to convey a difference in the rests. Otherwise its just something is better because I decided to spend my money on it, not that I actually have experience with anything else.
Shooter Mike
WKR
You’re not really gaining anything by switching if what you have is currently working. Any particular reason you’re looking at the GI8X and V2?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The way that the limb cord is locked down on the Hamskea sucks. It really is archaic.
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