ELK program... to get Efficiently Lean for Killing

[Sapcut]

Efficiently Lean for Killing. Anyone doing this? The objective is not be too heavy for climbing mountains for killing animals. Regardless if it is fat or muscle, just efficiently lean to not carry more weight than needed. It is eating in a 4 hour time period, lots of water and some coffee for 20 hours. The difference from a typical 20/4 IF plan is you do not give in to carbohydrates just because it is a short eating window and cardio/resistence training 3 times per week during latter portion of fasting period.

It is high fat and protein and very low carbs. Meat, (most preferrably wild raised), pastured eggs (preferrably duck), wild salmon, avacado, grass fed butter, coconut oil, greens with vegetable toppings. This will absolutely minimize insulin production allowing body flab to be used for fuel.

Very little insulin production from eating saturated fat and protein will result in body fat burning while still getting nutrient dense food. The high satiety levels and short eating window will help maintain a calorie deficit without sacrificing excellent nutrition. Body flab will run scared off your body. Not to mention HDL numbers tend to increase which is the best indicator of heart health.

 

[ofl0926]

Interesting
Sounds like keto meets fasting diets


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[Scrappy]

No silly, it has a completely different name.

Interesting
Sounds like keto meets fasting diets


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[Btaylor]

Like the name, but I would be in prison if I was only allowed to eat during a 4 hour window. Somebody would catch some hot lead.

 

[JDBAK]

That's near to what I often do. Sometimes I'll eat in a 4 hour window, but usually it's more like 6-8, and I generally avoid greens and vegetables. Sometimes a little bit of avacado, or something fresh and local (lately that's beach greens).

It works pretty well for me; did 35 strict pull ups awhile ago, definitely the leanest/strongest I've ever been.
You can tweak it more by messing with protein/fat ratios. I put the protein first, and don't add much additional fat. Most of my fat comes from the meat itself, and try different cuts depending on taste and how I feel. You can lean out with leaner cuts of meat, but may get to a point where you feel better with fattier cuts after a while. Fatty cuts are more satiating over time for me. Listen to your body.

best of luck

 

[Sapcut]

It is significantly easier to not eat for 20 hours than you would think. I have been pleasantly surprised. The main reason is the quality of satieting foods you do eat. Then the exellent body flab fuel used once the food is burned up. The very low to no carb allows that to happen. Carbs will make you hungry rather quickly because it drasitcally decreases your ability to burn flab fuel. Carbs are NOT needed for fuel...hence essential fatty acids and essential proteins. No essential carbs. Dietary fat and body flab are execellent and Godmade fuel.

 

[fatlander]

The best diet is the one that you stick to indefinitely. Staying ready is easier than getting ready. If elk hunting is your main fitness goal, make it a lifestyle change and get off the hamster wheel of getting in shape every summer.


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[Sapcut]

That's near to what I often do. Sometimes I'll eat in a 4 hour window, but usually it's more like 6-8, and I generally avoid greens and vegetables. Sometimes a little bit of avacado, or something fresh and local (lately that's beach greens).

It works pretty well for me; did 35 strict pull ups awhile ago, definitely the leanest/strongest I've ever been.
You can tweak it more by messing with protein/fat ratios. I put the protein first, and don't add much additional fat. Most of my fat comes from the meat itself, and try different cuts depending on taste and how I feel. You can lean out with leaner cuts of meat, but may get to a point where you feel better with fattier cuts after a while. Fatty cuts are more satiating over time for me. Listen to your body.

best of luck

Excellent!

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Where do you expect to get all the vital micronutrients and fiber that come from vegetables? We were made to be omnivores. That's literally how humans evolved. Carbs are not bad. Fiber is not bad. I don't get how people think their body is supposed to stay healthy in the long run with these fads. Eating a wide variety of nutrient dense foods is important to your health.

 

[Poser]

I like pizza & 400 lbs deadlifts. Carbs make great fuel sources for getting up mountains and it takes mass to move mass.

 

[Conrad101st]

I do 8 (+/-) hours of cardio per week.
I also lift 3 times per week.
I do not really worry about the weight I carry, but try to eat sensibly to keep the fat from accumulating.

It seems to me the two things that are important to me are good lungs and massive leg strength to stabilize load carrying at an ambling pace.
I weighed 155 as an infantry officer. I weigh 190 now snd actually feel better under load now even with 30 more years on me.

 

[SquirrelyDan]

Carbs are essential to a balanced diet. Cutting out complex carbs like grains and legumes is silly. Eat Whole Foods and balanced diet. Pass on the simple carbs and processed crap. Don’t fall for another fad diet.

 

[Poser]

Carbs are essential to a balanced diet. Cutting out complex carbs like grains and legumes is silly. Eat Whole Foods and balanced diet. Pass on the simple carbs and processed crap. Don’t fall for another fad diet.

Or get too skinny. I want the 190 lbs former infantry poster above, not the 150 lbs endurance racer for a hunting partner. Hunting is heavy rucking. The ideal heavy Rucker is a big, strong person with great muscular endurance not a cardio junky, manlet.

 

[JDBAK]

Where do you expect to get all the vital micronutrients and fiber that come from vegetables? We were made to be omnivores. That's literally how humans evolved. Carbs are not bad. Fiber is not bad. I don't get how people think their body is supposed to stay healthy in the long run with these fads. Eating a wide variety of nutrient dense foods is important to your health.

I would dispute the importance of vegetables as the source of vital micronutrients. I'm not necessarily against vegetables, if you like them and tolerate them well, then cool, but they aren't essential. Liver blows any green out of the water. For instance, how did indigenous hunter/gatherers make it in most of Alaska most of the year? How did humans make it out of the last ice age?

I also dispute the necessity of fiber. It's not necessarily bad (it can be good, context matters), but it isn't essential either. Almost three years without it now, and I'm NEVER gassy, bloated, or constipated. I don't even know what that feels like anymore.

Personally, I eat a fair bit of organ meats (liver and heart mostly) like a multivitamin. However, I don't know if that's really necessary; there are plenty of carnivores out there that do just fine for years at least who don't eat organs. I hedge my bets. But there are some well known 10-20 year carnivores out there that don't. And there are still indigenous populations that largely ignore plants.

My eating strategy is to basically replicate what is locally available in the natural environment, in season, in proportions that are consistent with what's naturally available. That predominantly means red meat, various fish and seafood, and eggs. I's been almost 3 years of little to no veg for, and I just keep getting stronger with less and less problems.
I'm not categorically against carbs, or fiber. But they aren't essential.

I pick about a few gallons of wild blueberries a year. They are not very sweet. So any given day that's around 20-30 blueberries. Or none. That's most of the carbs I get. Modern apples and oranges taste really really sweet now. I also get a couple gallons of wild beach greens in May, and finish them in June. Beyond that, vegetables are like an occasional condiment

In the winter I may go strict carnivore for weeks or months. I hasn't hurt at all. Again, what do you think people of the north really ate 200 years ago in February? What about nomadic plains Indians? How much fruits and greens do you really think they ate? There are examples like this all over the world, and there still are a few living out there. Not too mention the 10s of thousands (at least) of recent folks like me who choose it.

What kind of crazy species are we that have to have all these exotic foods flown in from all over the world, year round to be healthy? How is it that we're supposed to have unlimited, year round access to oranges and apples and bananas, and broccoli and asparagus and kale, and whole grain wheat, and F$#!@ing industrial seed oils? Most of that was impossible until a very short time ago. Has human health improved?

I do agree that we should eat nutrient dense foods. That can include some vegetation. But focus on the nutrients, not variety of source. Red meats and some organ meats in particular are primarily where it's at for nutrient density.

 

[TxxAgg]

Tagged

 

[JDBAK]

Carbs are essential to a balanced diet. Cutting out complex carbs like grains and legumes is silly. Eat Whole Foods and balanced diet. Pass on the simple carbs and processed crap. Don’t fall for another fad diet.

Sure carbs are essential....to meet our Federal government's dietary guidelines for a "Balanced" diet. Whatever that means. I'm not sure what the concept of a "balanced diet" is really trying to promote, because it sure as hell doesn't seem to be health.

Carbohydrates are NOT an essential macronutrient. There are way too many of us out there currently eating little to no carbs and going quite well. That's a huge understatement. There are way too many world class (and world record holder) athletes to write off as anecdotes. Several are in middle age. Minor example: My CO just informed me that I have the 2nd highest physical fitness score in the state for National guardsmen on the new 6 event ACFT. (and no, I can't verify if that's really true, but whatever, apparently I did alright). I'm 46 years old, only 5'5", and had never taken that test before. That should be impossible without carbs right? Well, no...my results are not crazy, I can point to plenty of folks like me, but with far more impressive results.

Carbs aren't categorically bad. I tolerate carbs relatively well now, much now better than in my 20's. I treat them like rocket fuel, or like a flex fuel rally car with nitro boost. That nitro boost (carbs) can be useful, but is not essential, and comes with a cost. I use them strategically, but sparingly. Or maybe not at all. On really hard, long, consecutive, intensely glycolytic days, some carbs can help with performance. But for the most part, I make enough glucose just eating meat, and don't need, and don't improve by taking in extra carbs. I make enough glucose, and do WAY better eating 0-20 grams or carbs a day over the long term. I can eat 150-ish grams, but that's a very rare day.

Running primarily on carbs (not being fat-adapted) means you have to fuel up all the time. Which sucks in the mountains....or as an infantryman. The gas tank for carbs is pretty tiny (2000-ish calories). The gas tank for fat is enormous, and the fuel burns clean and efficiently....given sufficient training and adaptation. Granted, I'm pretty well adapted to this fat burning thing, having been at it a long time. It takes several months. Some people will find they do better with more carbs (100 plus) even after a year. That's fine too.

I view the eating of grains as kind of a fad. Humans have only been doing it 10-15,000 years, and that's only some human populations, eating some grains, prepared in some particular ways. That's not a very long time from an evolutionary perspective. Just because we can eat them, doesn't mean it's ideal.
So a basic scientific question is appropriate....how well is all that grain eating working out? There are populations worth comparing.

Grains (and agriculture generally) have their uses...cheap, easily stored calories that keep well, and allow people to come together and develop civilization. But there's been some pretty major health costs that have come with it (and agriculture in general) as well. It looks to me like we're devolving. I'd rather approximate living off the wild land. My health has improved immeasurably since doing so.

We modern westerners are so arrogant about food...we assume that because we grew up with agriculture, and that supposedly scientific government agencies telling us what to believe, that agricultural based diets are the only proper way to live.
How's that working out?

Some people do okay on some grains in some quantities. Some don't. On a population level, I'd take the health, body composition, physical capacity, height/size, and longevity of most any semi-nomadic plains Indians or Massai over any population of agricultural based American or western European circa 1800. And since the dietary guidelines came out? Good god.

Eating an animal based diet may be suddenly much more popular, but is it really a crazy new fad? Is trying to follow basic human evolution a fad?

 

[540-Virginian]

Ive talked with multiple nutritionists as i was interested in all the different diets. Half of these fad diets do absolutely nothing, some donsomething but are only appropriate for people with certain conditions (keto is helpful for type 1 diabetics when hospitalized sometimes i heard).

But for the rest of us, a balanced diet, water, and exercise is the only diet thats matters. Lean is different for everyone as we are all different physiologically. I store fat around my belly. If i cut out beer and donuts, and increase my salad intake and work out my core harder and run harder, it goes away. It’s pretty simple really. Go exercise, eat healthy.

Oh, and f*ck potato chips, salad dressing, and mayonnaise. Seriously, I ditched chips replaced with fruit, replaced salad dressing with olive oil, and eat dry sandwiches. That took care of half of my diet and fat on my gut. Now i just need to get rid of those donuts…

 

[Sapcut]

I could go on and on about this, perhaps for another thread, but there is sooooo much VITAL (life or death) nutrition information available, of which the vast majority of the public have no idea. And that is due to said vast majority thinking that their personal MDs and drug companies exist to actually repair and prevent their ailments, thinking that food manufactures actually manufacture real food and just simple apathy.

The results are in. Just sit on a bench almost anywhere in the world and notice the 6-7 out of 10 folks that walk by are obese and unhealthy. Most of those eat way too many carbs and grains on their so called balanced diet. If you want to look like them, feel like them and be just as healthy as the 6-7.....then its easy.....eat like them. Eat the manmade foodlike substances instead of the Godmade foods.

 

[Wrench]

I've found that exercising at a higher level than I expect to exert on my hunt, not eating any garbage and keeping my carbs as clean as possible are what makes me as effective as I need to be.

I have hunted with the guy who looks like the rock and he had to eat 15 pounds a day. Ive hunted with guys who were near single digits in body fat and bonked HARD. I am satisfied with sustainable and effective. Sometimes it is more chub that makes a 15 day solo endurable.

I have fasted for 40 days when my wife left me and I had to force myself to eat again because I felt incredible.....clear mind, no hunger, plenty of energy.

I have left the buffet after a big meal of crap and felt like hammered owl shit for days nursing that hangover.

I know neither are sustainable.

Eat clean, lift heavy stuff sometimes,move a lot, move fast sometimes.....and enjoy the rewards.

Coming from a former fat guy who routinely solos deep enough to say "beef free since 93".

 

[Wrench]

Ps, I think we can all agree that processed sugar is the devil.