If it assists anyone making an educated decision:
eldm vs eldx bullet?
- Thread starter jj2096
- Start date
youngbuck96
FNG
I've killed two animals with 147 gr ELDM from my 20" suppressed 6.5 PRC this year, factory Hornady ammo with a 2790 muzzle velocity. A blacktail at 126 yards, hit broadside in the crease just behind the shoulder. Caliber sized entry hole, 1.5" exit hole through the ribs, the deer's lungs were turned to mist. Other was a whitetail doe at 50 yards, quartering towards. Caliber sized entry hole through the shoulder, 1.5" exit hole through the ribs, heart was blown in half and both lungs were mist. In my experience, the ELDM have been devastating.
youngbuck96
FNG
I will note that I believe the ELDM fragment easier than the ELDX, but this hasn't been an issue for me. Off my small sample size, both shots were pass throughs and retained the majority of their mass.
Out of curiosity, what do you think this tells you?If it assists anyone making an educated decision:
Here is a 225 gr eldm out of a 300 prc that penetrated 15” in bare gel:
225 gr ELD® Match - Hornady Law Enforcement
The 300 PRC 225 ELD® Match TAP Precision® was designed and adopted to fulfill a specific need within the Department of Defense by increasing hit probability and providing exceptional terminal performance from 0 – 2000 yards. This cartridge is an effici...
Here is a 308 cx that penetrated 29” and had a max cavity 5” vs 5.5” wide for the 147 eldx. Hardly the “pencil” wounds people claim for monos on here
My point is these pictures of gel with colored solution are useless for anything but marketing. You need to disect the gel to see the true would cavities as the solution leaks into the cracks which roughly correlate with the temp cavity which may or may not correlate with permanent cavity
I strongly suspect the reason eldm and other “tipped” match bullets are used for LE ammo is because a “hunting” bullet would penetrate beyond the FBI guideline max penetration of 18”. Notice only the “heavy barrier” type ammo uses hunting bullets
Lou
Pharmseller
WKR
If you read my post, nowhere did I say that you said they couldn’t be used for hunting.
I just find it interesting that someone with zero on-game experience with a bullet would work so hard to caution other hunters on the theoretical limitations of said bullet.
That being said, I have killed three deer with the 75 grain ELDM, at ranges from 100 to 475 yards. Two deer dropped at the shot, the third went eight feet. So there’s my on-game experience.
Wasn’t hard work. I enjoy discussions on terminal performance. The limitations I listed are not theoretical. They are literally presented as described in detail on Hornady podcasts by the guys who designed the bullets. As somebody who has been fascinated by bullet construction and terminal performance for a long time and test lots of them on game it does not take me shooting a few deer with them to understand what they are saying as I have used similarly constructed bullets (amax for ex). That is why Hornady stance is use eldm for hunting at your own risk as results may vary.
Lou
Lou
It was mentioned above that match bullets are constructed in a manner, nor tested, to demonstrate consistent terminal ballistics.
“2). The terminal performance of the eldm is not tested by Hornady. Eldx has terminal performance design parameters that are periodically QCed by the factory.”
I provided information that, at least for the Hornady ELDM, terminal testing has been completed by the manufacturer. LE marketed ammunition must function very consistently internally/externally/terminally across all lots. LE ammunition has an high level of quality control. Each person can draw their own conclusions with the provided information and use what works best for their use.
My opinion only, from my personal limited kills on game, the 6.5 147 ELDm from a CM, at 130 to 460 yards, has performed very well terminally on open air shots (no hard barriers). I have found this bullet to be most accurate in my gun, have a high BC value for decreased wind deflection, provide consistently excellent upset through the velocity spread experienced, indicate deep penetration due to high SD, and a low cost for extensive practice. For me the ELDm does what I need.
I have used many “hunting bullets” (AB, CL, SST, copper, etc.) previously with success. The match bullet overall does consistently better for me in all the categories that matter.
“2). The terminal performance of the eldm is not tested by Hornady. Eldx has terminal performance design parameters that are periodically QCed by the factory.”
I provided information that, at least for the Hornady ELDM, terminal testing has been completed by the manufacturer. LE marketed ammunition must function very consistently internally/externally/terminally across all lots. LE ammunition has an high level of quality control. Each person can draw their own conclusions with the provided information and use what works best for their use.
My opinion only, from my personal limited kills on game, the 6.5 147 ELDm from a CM, at 130 to 460 yards, has performed very well terminally on open air shots (no hard barriers). I have found this bullet to be most accurate in my gun, have a high BC value for decreased wind deflection, provide consistently excellent upset through the velocity spread experienced, indicate deep penetration due to high SD, and a low cost for extensive practice. For me the ELDm does what I need.
I have used many “hunting bullets” (AB, CL, SST, copper, etc.) previously with success. The match bullet overall does consistently better for me in all the categories that matter.
I see what you are saying but this is just a bullet shot into gel at one impact velocity unless I am missing something. In this case - sub 2700 fps which is mild where thicker jackets not as important and does not show the min impact velocity for expansion at all. That is just showing a bullet penetrates between 12-18” following the FBI protocol. How would that same eldm perform if jacked up to 2900 fps 6.5prc or faster for ex. How would it expand in bare gel at 1800 fps? The eldx is tested for this is…
Sounds like the 147 eldm works well for the impact velocities you are using it at! I think people are missing the point I am talking extremes of impact velocities here and not all the stuff in between. May not be important to some, but for me if I am using a high BC bullet that is long range and I want a bullet that has features to ensure low velocity expansion not anecdotal evidence. I would trade a little BC for lower expansion velocity in a hunting bullet for ex.
Lou
logem
Lil-Rokslider
I've come to the conclusion that I'll be using TMKs or ELD-M for personal/home protection and range use, and ELD-X for hunting.
TradLife406
WKR
An easier way to search Rokslide is to use grok. Ask it to reference Rokslide for a certain thing. In about 30 seconds it will pull all the information you're wanting and give you a summary.
I think Grok is one of us. It's all about using match bullets and small calibers. I'd assume it's based on this thread and all the posts.
Where as chat gpt was like a 22 creed and match bullets is not recommended and is the minimum for elk.
Grok on unhinged mode is like oh F yeah bud 77 grain tmk going 3000 plus fps will kill anything!
I find the tapatalk search to be clunky. Grok is super helpful.
I think Grok is one of us. It's all about using match bullets and small calibers. I'd assume it's based on this thread and all the posts.
Where as chat gpt was like a 22 creed and match bullets is not recommended and is the minimum for elk.
Grok on unhinged mode is like oh F yeah bud 77 grain tmk going 3000 plus fps will kill anything!
I find the tapatalk search to be clunky. Grok is super helpful.
Choupique
WKR
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2022
- Messages
- 1,112
Be a playground for a lawyer in a civil case. Labeling anything as suitable for hunting makes it totally unusable for LE, .mil, and for me self defense usage.
You would be accused of "hunting" people....
You brought up some interesting points for consideration and discussion that I found useful to my evaluation of ELD-X vs ELD-M use. I'm not convinced this is a "done discussion" as there will always be examples of ELD-X and ELD-M working or not working on game; it is evident that no bullet is perfect in all scenarios. Interestingly, here's a post regarding ELD-X failure that has me ELD-M-curious for my 6.5 CM: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...eer-elk-and-whatever-else.244973/post-4496387
Pharmseller
WKR
Understood.
So basically you took what others said and repackaged it with words of caution. because you like discussions on terminal performance.
Law enforcement and military don’t think about hunting marketing at all.
Excellent perspective! Have fun with your search and I am coming from place of understanding pros/cons of different bullet construction vs. saying one type is best for all possible scenarios. In case of the fail, If an eldx does not expand at a distance, an eldm is not the answer. The tip of the bullet is important to intiate expansion not the thickness of jackness around the shank and the eldx has a wider and deeper hollowpoint (ie weaker nose) than eldm at least ones I have seen sectioned. As for blood trails they can be hit or miss. A buddy just told me he shot a doe with accubond and it ran 75 yards without trail. An exit increases the odds a bunch for a blood trail but if your shot is high the body cavity needs to fill before leaks blood and if your shot stops the heart there is nothing pumping it so can take longer. While I vastly prefer exits it just ups the odds of a good blood trail, not guarantee it. I have found that if you have a good expanding bullet that holds a mushroom shape even if loses some weight to fragmenation along way and a cartridge that had some oomph to blow it out the offside you will more likely have a string of lung tissue/blood where shot is even if it takes a while for entrance/exit to start leaking
Lou
Lol. Sorry I hurt your feelings about your favorite bullet.
Pharmseller
WKR
Partition is my favorite.
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