ELDM Expansion Velocity

[Tullis94]

I've always used 1800 fps as the minimum velocity for expansion. On one of the recent Shoot 2 Hunt podcasts Ryan talks about the 180 eldm penciling at 1950fps Impact velocity. I also experienced what I suspect was a 180 eldm that penciled at about 1850fps impact.

The deer was never recovered but was seen feeding in some thick mahaognay again about 20 minutes later acting as if nothing had happened. I have the impact on video. It was just in front of the shoulder. Maybe in the very front part of the shoulder. (Not ideal placement, but upon impact I told the shooter it was a dead deer) Hearing Ryan's experience of the failure to expand basically solidified what I though happened.

Basically I would like to know at what velocity you guys have seen expansion or failure to expand with eldms or any other bullet at 2000 fps and below. Please include the make and size/weight of the bullet.

Im looking for actually experiences please. Not just what you have read on the internet.

 

[J.B.]

Interesting, definitely following. Made a kill around 1850 fps with the 147 this year but did not look at the wound too close. Hit bone so that would help expansion for sure.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Share the video?

 

[BrentH]

My son shot a whitetail two years ago with a 143 ELD-X out of a 6.5 CM. 430 yards and the impact velocity would have been around 1840. Deer was quartered away, and the shot went in perfect to take out both lungs. Deer ran about 50ish yards and was dead.

 

[mtnbound]

I've always used 1800 fps as the minimum velocity for expansion. On one of the recent Shoot 2 Hunt podcasts Ryan talks about the 180 eldm penciling at 1950fps Impact velocity. I also experienced what I suspect was a 180 eldm that penciled at about 1850fps impact.

The deer was never recovered but was seen feeding in some thick mahaognay again about 20 minutes later acting as if nothing had happened. I have the impact on video. It was just in front of the shoulder. Maybe in the very front part of the shoulder. (Not ideal placement, but upon impact I told the shooter it was a dead deer) Hearing Ryan's experience of the failure to expand basically solidified what I though happened.

Basically I would like to know at what velocity you guys have seen expansion or failure to expand with eldms or any other bullet at 2000 fps and below. Please include the make and size/weight of the bullet.

Im looking for actually experiences please. Not just what you have read on the internet.

The only elk I did not recover was shot with a factory-loaded .308 168-grain Nosler Accubond at about 2200fps.

 

[West2East]

Interested in this too. The only animal that didn't get expansion like I thought it would was in an antelope at 475 with a 147 out of a 6.5CM. Impact velocity should have been about 2030fps. I wouldn't call it a pencil, but the lungs had an 1" hole, through and through.
Counter that to all of the other animals and they were all 2" holes or jellied lungs.
I attributed it to antelope having smaller frames and "thin skin". But IDK

Edit to add: Factory 147s

 

[207North]

How much of this variability is factory ammunition and how much is reloaded.

A lot of neck tension can result in obvious deformation from bullet seating. Could this be why some projectiles open and others pencil at similar velocities?

 

[IrkedCitizen]

This video is the lungs of a bull elk my sister killed at 330yd using 162gr ELD-M bullets from a 25.6" barrel 7RM. He buckled hard on impact and made it 30yd before tipping over.

I don't want nor need more wound channel. Put the bullet in the vitals and things die.

 

[Jordan Smith]

My hunting partners and I have put a several 147 ELDMs through elk, BH sheep, MD, and WT with impact speeds of 1850-1950 fps. Obvious expansion and moderate wound channels in all.

 

[Coleredding00]

I think that using one velocity for a multitude of bullet weights/diameters is problematic. Each bullet has its own sectional density and physical properties that is going to change where the “edge” of expansion velocity is.

 

[Sako300]

Interesting! I know these guys push for smaller 6mm and under calibers. Could just be the standard marketing hype!!

 

[grfox92]

So you never recovered the deer, but are chalking it up to poor bullet expansion? You dont even know where you hit the deer.

Impacts on video can be deceiving. I shot an Antelope on video 2 years ago. Not one person who has seen the video didn't think it was a gut shot based on what it looked like was the point of impact. In reality I shot that buck quartering too hit him exactly where I was aiming, towards the front of the shoulder, and the bullet was in the hide just in front of the opposing rear quarter. Actual impact was almost 16 inches away from where it appeared to be in the video.

Regardless of weather or not the bullet in the OPs post expanded or failed, the lack of expansion isn't what cause you to not recover the deer. The location of where you hit the deer is what caused you to not recover the deer. If the deer was shot with a .223 55gr FMJ in the lungs you would have found it. To say a poorly expanding 180gr bullet is the reason you didn't recover the animal is insane.

It's pretty wild that Ryan made one comment on a podcast about an ELDMs and now the forum seems to be almost wanting to turn on ELDMs or doubt there efficacy. Almost like we are forgetting that there is multiple threads with multiple calibers with the most comprehensive collection of documented wound channels, probably in the world. In those threads there are hundreds if not thousands of pictures of devastating wound channels out of ELDMs and as far as I can remember I dont recall a single instance in those threads of someone claiming poor expansion from M's.



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[grfox92]

The deer in my avatar picture.

1947 FPS @ 648 Yards
162gr 7MM ELDM.

Put a hole about the size of soda can through the deer.

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[Mountain_Life]

300 WM. 178 ELDM. 1659 impact velocity on bull elk. Impact behind shoulder and exit behind shoulder. Exits as shown. One bullet was against hide and removed, it's sitting by the knife. The other was just inside the bloody mess you can see. Complete carnage once the outer layer of fat/skin was removed.

 

[Jlister]

In 2020 shot an antelope 4 times with Berger 6.5 140 vlds out of a 26 nosler impact velocity was around 2500 fps. All hits in chest and low neck. Spotter thought I was shooting over but I could hear them hit. Last shot was in both shoulders and opened after hitting bone. The last wound channel was the only one bigger then a bottle cap