ELD-X

[Muley Buck]

Couldn't pay me to run another ELDX through an animal I planned on eating, they are so damn explosive. Hit a bear behind the shoulder steep raking shot at 300 with a 143 ELDX that blew a pop can sized hole out the other side of his chest, blood shot the entire off side shoulder. Shot a buck right behind the shoulder and same thing, bullet fragments everywhere.

Can't for the life of me figure out why the ELDXs seem to be so frangible and the ELDMs are absolute hammers. Put one of those through a bear's shoulder this fall and had a clean pass through with just the right amount of carnage, no crazy bloodshot meat loss.

Have read all kinds of reports identical to mine, which led to the switch to ELDMs in the first place.

I'd start there and save the headache!

What were the velocities of each?

 

[Flyjunky]

Good for paper but fell apart in 2 different elk. This was in my 300wsm and 162grain.

Like mentioned earlier, this is a very light bullet for a 300wsm. That bullet had to be screaming fast and impact with that bullet at 100 yards is not going to end well. The ELDX is a high bc, long range bullet, and in my opinion heavy for caliber options should be used.

That's not so much a bullet failure as it is a classic case of wrong bullet for the situation.

 

[ianpadron]

What were the velocities of each?

Bear roughly 2000 FPS, buck around 2400.

 

[Muley Buck]

Bear roughly 2000 FPS, buck around 2400.

I take it those are impact velocities then? What was the yardage and velocity of the one you put through a bears shoulder with an ELD-M? Also what size and grain ELD-M?

 

[ianpadron]

I take it those are impact velocities then? What was the yardage and velocity of the one you put through a bears shoulder with an ELD-M? Also what size and grain ELD-M?

Correct, impact velocities. MV of 2550-2600 out of a CM.

ELD-M was 289 yards with a 168 grainer, fired out of a .308 Winchester around 2850FPS...so likely around 23-2400 FPS when it hit, which ironically was within 10 yards of the distance I shot the bear with a 143 at the year prior.

 

[Muley Buck]

Correct, impact velocities. MV of 2550-2600 out of a CM.

ELD-M was 289 yards with a 168 grainer, fired out of a .308 Winchester around 2850FPS...so likely around 23-2400 FPS when it hit, which ironically was within 10 yards of the distance I shot the bear with a 143 at the year prior.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Tmac]

I used the 150‘s out of my 280 at 2,950 FPS at the muzzle. Took a small whitetail doe and a buck. Fairly close shots. The bullets did a bunch of damage, killed quickly, and cost me some meat even though they were just behind the shoulder. I am sure either will work well from your AI, but all else being equal, I’d go with the 162.

Myself, I stopped using them and stick with bonded or mono’s as I hate unnecessary meat loss and looking for bullet fragments. I tend to stalk for close shots and rarely have shot at game over 400 yards, so that does inform my bullet preferences. If I wanted to shoot at very long range, I may love the eld-x.

 

[Tradchef]

I used them for the first time this year. I shot the 110s out of my 25-06. They grouped fantastic on the range and did well in the field. I shot my bull this year a touch over 300 yards and he never took a step.

 

[rope]

The ELD-X have a thinner jacket than the ELD-M. I don't remember if I took a picture of them when I cut them in half. The M's thicker jacket is to take the rpm of the fast twist barrels typically seen on match guns. I recently listened to a few podcast that Frank Green (owner of Bartlien barrels) ; George Gardner (owner of GA Precision) and Brian Litz (Applied Ballistics for Berger bullets). They talked about how the fast twist barrels would push 400,000 rpm. Also the larger the caliber the more force on the jacket and less rpm it can take. By dropping from a 7 to 8 twist drops the rpm from 400,000 to 300,000. Mr. Litz talked about many match/target bullets have the thicker jackets that a standard cup and core. Mr. Green and Gardner talked about gain twist barrels help with the rotational force applied to the jacket, keeping them together better at higher rpms. They believe that gain twist deformed the bullet less resulting better accuracy and bullets performing as intended. Mr. Litz talked about how bullet design lend to performance. I don't remember if it was a podcast or written, however Mr. Litz also hunts. And what I took from that was that bullet rpm on impact of a animal may by why we see bullet failures on game. If anyone has seen any of the videos of bullets exploding, one thing I have noticed is the distance the video talks about the bullet coming apart. A good porting is 200-400 yards. I wonder if some of the bullet failures we are seeing are bullets that are being over rotated and barely staying together and when they impact the animal they are vaporizing.

On the Berger website there is a twist rate calculator as were as the "No BS BC" there is quite a bit of written information to geek out on.

As we know many of the premium hunting bullets have thicker bullets than match/target bullets. Quite a few years ago I cut Accubonds, A-tips, Scirocco, Aframe, Partition, Core Lokt, Berger Target, Game king and Match king. The cup and core were the thinnest, match medium and premium hunting were thickest.

 

[Foreverz01]

I’ve used the 212 with 300 prc and they have expanded but not extremely well. they have passed through at least though.

 

[slowelk]

I think bullets are the ultimate YMMV piece of equipment.

I have had good and bad experience with both Xs and Ms out of 30s and 6.5s. The most recent was with a 143 X, DRT hard quartering to on a mature mule deer buck at 210 yards, velocity about 2,400 FPS. Shot placed just inside the shoulder on the chest, dropped where he took the shot, bullet passed through the chest cavity, jellied the vitals and exited in front of the second to last rib. No meat damage, flawless performance IMO.

An M experience this year - 147 M, 430ish yards, 2,275 FPS on a cow elk. Shot center mass, but bullet impacted just in front of the last rib, exact middle vertically. That cow ended up going over two miles and had to be shot twice more in the timber to ultimately finish her. All of those bullets penetrated and immediately blew up. Her guts were torn up (first shot), and I lost an entire shoulder from the close-range timber shots.

 

[coop2424]

If I may ask, what twist rate you using? Thanks.

I am running a 1/8 twist.

 

[Muley Buck]

The ELD-X have a thinner jacket than the ELD-M.

I'd like to see your picture of the ELD-X and ELD-M cross sections. It is my understanding that it is the opposite.

6.5 PRC barrel length?

Barrel length 24” or 26” non suppressed??? Looking at a proof carbon in one of those lengths. Wondering what the data is on 143 ELD-x, 147 ELD-m and possibly 156 Berger EOL elite hunter. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

www.rokslide.com

 

[EmperorMA]

I'd like to see your picture of the ELD-X and ELD-M cross sections. It is my understanding that it is the opposite.

You are right. ELD-X is thicker overall. However, the upper 1/3 is at least equal, and the ELD-M might even be a bit thicker.

I can see why the ELD-M might be a bit more consistent, as its thickness is almost uniform for the entire length of the bullet. There is also definitely a bigger upset cavity in the ELD-X which also could contribute to the ELD-M penetrating more (see last photo).

 

[rope]

As stated I am not sure if I took pictures or not, and could not find any. I had a house fire or I would go grab some and cut them up. The pics above are 6.5's and the ones I am referencing are 30 cal. One thing I notice is the tips look different than I remember, I recall them being more opaque/ lighter red not like the darker ones above. The time frame was '15-'16, I don't know what generation they are up to now. I also don't remember seeing the locking ring inside. Coming into that time frame I shot Nosler accubonds or Barnes X for hunting. I remember wanting the Hornady to work, as they have/had a better price point. As I am replacing my reloading supplies post fire during covid sucks and have the current ELDM & X's.

Off internet images these are what I remember, just not the ring.

Hornady ELD-M Projectiles | Huntsman Aus

www.huntsmanfirearms.com.au

 

[Muley Buck]

Sorry to hear about your hardships.
The link you provided is for ELD-Ms, the first picture of the box is correct but the second picture of the cross section is incorrect. That is an ELD-X. That website has it wrong. You can verify that it is. If you simply zoom in on the box picture, it clearly has no interlock ring.

 

[Muley Buck]

As far as the tips and design go, yes they do change as time goes on. I have some .246 143 gr bullets that are different runs in different boxes at different times. I have no idea how much time between the two but the tips are certainly different as is the length and ogive which means the bearing surface is different as well. Given all the differences between these two It is still my understanding that the jackets will be thicker and have an interlock ring as compared to an ELD-M.

These are measurements of the newer one on the left.


These are the measurements of the older one one on the right.

 

[Muley Buck]

Sorry @MuleyFever if I derailed your thread somewhat. That was not my intention. I only intended to bring the most factual information to the table, in order to help you and others decide on bullet selection.

 

[MuleyFever]

Sorry @MuleyFever if I derailed your thread somewhat. That was not my intention. I only intended to bring the most factual information to the table, in order to help you and others decide on bullet selection.

No worries. All good info.

 

[KU_Geo]

I put 2 143ELDX through a big horn ram this past fall at 270-300 yards. Nickel size exits, lots of blood, and one went through the off shoulder. First one definitely would have killed him but he was just standing there so he caught a second one.