ELD-X issues

[MN_kurka]

If you're hand loading you should try the 140 TGK, big frontal cavity that fragments still but a thicker jacket in the rear intended to hold together a little better. I shot a couple animals with them and had good results, I could send you a handful if you want to see how they shoot in your rifle.

Unfortunately I don't reload but I appreciate the offer, TGK sounds like a better round for my uses Thinking an .06 Tikka and Nosler Accubonds or Partitions are in my future.

 

[Rolando]

Any single report of bullet failure brings out other people looking for something to blame other than themselves. And the whole thing snowballs into a reputation that may or may not be deserved. That’s my theory on how these things work.

It’s kind of funny to chart the spread of “gun lore.” All it takes is one authority figure seeking an explanation or excuse for “what went wrong” to condemn whole brands, product lines, etc. for those who respect him.*

You just described the holy drop test.

 

[Wickss]

Help me figure out what happened here! My Daughter got this Buck last day of the KS rifle season. I've attached the videos of the shots, and some still pics showing where the 143 gr ELD-X from her 6.5 CM hit. I reload, muzzle velocity is 2587. 1st shot was 73 yds, MV 2500. 2nd shot was 51 yrds, MV 2515. Both shots the bullets zipped right through this buck like a FMJ.

At this range where the heck was the wallop? (LOL i couldn't help myself) knowing the 6.5 doesn't wallop game.

After dressing out the buck and fully quartering all the meat out, both entry & exit holes were no more than a pencil, you can see the bullets kicking up dust after both shots so of course I didn't recover them. The heart showed the most devastation, but I would think at these ranges when hit it would have been vaporized.

I was expecting some serious bullet fragmentation and devastation at this range. 1st shot is slightly low, 2nd shot is perfect. Why did the ELD-X pencil through both shots at this range?

 

[Formidilosus]

Help me figure out what happened here! My Daughter got this Buck last day of the KS rifle season. I've attached the videos of the shots, and some still pics showing where the 143 gr ELD-X from her 6.5 CM hit. I reload, muzzle velocity is 2587. 1st shot was 73 yds, MV 2500. 2nd shot was 51 yrds, MV 2515. Both shots the bullets zipped right through this buck like a FMJ.

At this range where the heck was the wallop? (LOL i couldn't help myself) knowing the 6.5 doesn't wallop game.

After dressing out the buck and fully quartering all the meat out, both entry & exit holes were no more than a pencil, you can see the bullets kicking up dust after both shots so of course I didn't recover them. The heart showed the most devastation, but I would think at these ranges when hit it would have been vaporized.

I was expecting some serious bullet fragmentation and devastation at this range. 1st shot is slightly low, 2nd shot is perfect. Why did the ELD-X pencil through both shots at this range?

When bullets fail, it’s failure to upset- they don’t “blow up” and stop an inch in. Without pictures of the wound I couldn’t tell whether or not the damage was correct on average for that bullet. However, a small entrance and a small exit does not mean the bullet didn’t upset.

 

[Wickss]

Glad you jumped in on this Form. I wish I would have taken pictures of the entry, exit, and wound channel, but since I didn't you'll just have to take my word that with both shots it looked like an arrow with a field point zipped through the deer. There was no evidence that the bullet upset at all.

That is my question, why did it not upset, I expect and want a bullet to upset/expand drastically dumping all energy into the animal, hence why I don't shoot mono's. I feel from the videos I posted without question this did not happen. You can see in the video the dang buck was still chewing on the turnip he had just pulled up in the food plot after both shots LOL.

Could it be from the shot placement? 1st shot was slightly low, and we were shooting from a 14 foot elevated blind. But 2nd shot was center mass in the crease of the shoulder. Did the bullets just not hit anything in the animal to help with the upset/mushroom?

On KS whitetails are we better off shooting the ELD-M? How about the ELD-VT? I have this ELD-VT handloaded for this rifle and it shoots lights out too.

Here is a picture of a 143 ELD-X shot out of a 6.5 PRC I recovered under the off side hide last year from a buck we took. The shot was 200 yards, impact velocity had to be close to 2660. This buck folded at the shot and didn't twitch.

 

[parshal]

A buddy of mine took a 6.5 PRC to Africa shooting 143's. He killed 11 animals and everything was on the ground within 30 yards. Another buddy and I went to Africa a couple years later. I shot the PRC with 143 Bondstrike and he shot a 65 SAUM with 147 ELDM. His animals were on the ground much quicker than mine. The PH was impressed by the 147's. After that trip, I use 147's.

Why anyone is shooting at shoulders with match bullets is beyond me. Shoot for the lungs. More effective and no meat damage.

 

[wind gypsy]

Glad you jumped in on this Form. I wish I would have taken pictures of the entry, exit, and wound channel, but since I didn't you'll just have to take my word that with both shots it looked like an arrow with a field point zipped through the deer. There was no evidence that the bullet upset at all.

That is my question, why did it not upset, I expect and want a bullet to upset/expand drastically dumping all energy into the animal, hence why I don't shoot mono's. I feel from the videos I posted without question this did not happen. You can see in the video the dang buck was still chewing on the turnip he had just pulled up in the food plot after both shots LOL.

Could it be from the shot placement? 1st shot was slightly low, and we were shooting from a 14 foot elevated blind. But 2nd shot was center mass in the crease of the shoulder. Did the bullets just not hit anything in the animal to help with the upset/mushroom?

On KS whitetails are we better off shooting the ELD-M? How about the ELD-VT? I have this ELD-VT handloaded for this rifle and it shoots lights out too.

Here is a picture of a 143 ELD-X shot out of a 6.5 PRC I recovered under the off side hide last year from a buck we took. The shot was 200 yards, impact velocity had to be close to 2660. This buck folded at the shot and didn't twitch.

The second video you posted says private and unavailable. First one the shot looks pretty low. If it slipped between ribs under the sternum i could understand minimal upset a little but I'd still expect a ELDx to be violent within that depth of penetration. Interesting.

 

[atmat]

The second video you posted says private and unavailable. First one the shot looks pretty low.

That’s what I thought as well. Would love to see the second video. Would be even better with autopsy photos.

 

[Wickss]

crud let me see if I can fix that 2nd video..

 

[Wickss]

Let's try this for the 2nd video......

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Hearing yall on that 2nd vid brought a smile to my face, good job Dad! Sorry no help on the X lol.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Glad you jumped in on this Form. I wish I would have taken pictures of the entry, exit, and wound channel, but since I didn't you'll just have to take my word that with both shots it looked like an arrow with a field point zipped through the deer. There was no evidence that the bullet upset at all.

That is my question, why did it not upset, I expect and want a bullet to upset/expand drastically dumping all energy into the animal, hence why I don't shoot mono's. I feel from the videos I posted without question this did not happen. You can see in the video the dang buck was still chewing on the turnip he had just pulled up in the food plot after both shots LOL.

Could it be from the shot placement? 1st shot was slightly low, and we were shooting from a 14 foot elevated blind. But 2nd shot was center mass in the crease of the shoulder. Did the bullets just not hit anything in the animal to help with the upset/mushroom?

On KS whitetails are we better off shooting the ELD-M? How about the ELD-VT? I have this ELD-VT handloaded for this rifle and it shoots lights out too.

Here is a picture of a 143 ELD-X shot out of a 6.5 PRC I recovered under the off side hide last year from a buck we took. The shot was 200 yards, impact velocity had to be close to 2660. This buck folded at the shot and didn't twitch.

Seems like you have some experience with the 143 Xs already?

How many kills with them?

I generally don’t base bullet performance on a few big game kills, but would rather form a “general” opinion on them once I start approaching 20-30 kills.

The first shot looked low, and likely didn’t hit any bones other than maybe some offside ribs at the bottom? The bullet “penciling” can happen on these types of shots. I’ve seen it first hand with that exact bullet. It is, however, not common.

First shot impact location



It’s interesting because the second shot impact looks to be well placed, and you can see that there was a wide enough wound for him to immediately start dumping blood from the bottom of his offside ribs. I’m guessing that is where the first shot “exited” looking at the videos. There seems to have been a large enough wound from the second shot to cause the trauma/exit from the first shot impact to begin leaking out blood very quickly.

Check out the second shot impact location indentation in the deer here…



Congrats on a nice buck for your daughter! Hearing her adrenaline and excitement makes a dad smile!

 

[Formidilosus]

Glad you jumped in on this Form. I wish I would have taken pictures of the entry, exit, and wound channel, but since I didn't you'll just have to take my word that with both shots it looked like an arrow with a field point zipped through the deer. There was no evidence that the bullet upset at all.

That is my question, why did it not upset,

Again- all bullet do weird things at times. All of them. In legit terminal ballistics testing you see failures regularly- almost always they are failures to upset.

As for why they didn’t upset much- in this particular case it seems to be mainly caused by the tip Hornady uses. The nose opening on the 143’s is a good design, but the tip is brittle and tends to break off block the opening. Issues with the 143gr ELD-X’s are rare- I’ve not seen one in a lot of animals, but I have seen pictures of a couple.

I would have no issues continuing to use the 143, but I personally would switch bullet lot #’s.

expect and want a bullet to upset/expand drastically dumping all energy into the animal, hence why I don't shoot mono's.

Sure. To put it in perspective- with just monos, failure to upset and a larger wound than pinky is 20+ times more likely.

Could it be from the shot placement? 1st shot was slightly low, and we were shooting from a 14 foot elevated blind. But 2nd shot was center mass in the crease of the shoulder. Did the bullets just not hit anything in the animal to help with the upset/mushroom?

No. Both shots should have created a 4” wide wound. If that didn’t happen, it was just random bullet failure to upset.

On KS whitetails are we better off shooting the ELD-M?

No. While still rare, it happens more with ELD-M than it does with ELD-X’s.

How about the ELD-VT? I have this ELD-VT handloaded for this rifle and it shoots lights out too.

They are pretty violent.

One of the most reliably upsetting bullets made is the 130gr TMK. Again, I would have any issue continueing to use the 143 ELD-X (change lots), but the 130gr TMK is the jam for 6.5cm.

Here is a picture of a 143 ELD-X shot out of a 6.5 PRC I recovered under the off side hide last year from a buck we took. The shot was 200 yards, impact velocity had to be close to 2660. This buck folded at the shot and didn't twitch.

Yep. That’s what happens most of the time.

 

[wind gypsy]

Seems like you have some experience with the 143 Xs already?

How many kills with them?

I generally don’t base bullet performance on a few big game kills, but would rather form a “general” opinion on them once I start approaching 20-30 kills.

The first shot looked low, and likely didn’t hit any bones other than maybe some offside ribs at the bottom? The bullet “penciling” can happen on these types of shots. I’ve seen it first hand with that exact bullet. It is, however, not common.

First shot impact location

View attachment 986871

It’s interesting because the second shot impact looks to be well placed, and you can see that there was a wide enough wound for him to immediately start dumping blood from the bottom of his offside ribs. I’m guessing that is where the first shot “exited” looking at the videos. There seems to have been a large enough wound from the second shot to cause the trauma/exit from the first shot impact to begin leaking out blood very quickly.

Check out the second shot impact location indentation in the deer here…

View attachment 986870

Congrats on a nice buck for your daughter! Hearing her adrenaline and excitement makes a dad smile!

Second shot location seemed similar to 1st shot location to me. Pretty low. I would guess got back of heart but wouldnt' expect a lot of damage to lungs?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Second shot location seemed similar to 1st shot location to me. Pretty low. I would guess got back of heart but wouldnt' expect a lot of damage to lungs?

I thought so too and then slowed the video down and saw the hit in the screenshot I posted. Still a bit low yes.

 

[wind gypsy]

Second shot impact appeared to hit here to me:

 

[S-3 ranch]

As for why they didn’t upset much- in this particular case it seems to be mainly caused by the tip Hornady uses. The nose opening on the 143’s is a good design, but the tip is brittle and tends to break off block the opening. Issues with the 143gr ELD-X’s are rare- I’ve not seen one in a lot of animals

Seen SGK break off tip and not upset, shot a doe last year and it penciled through, doe ran off into heavy brush and cactus ( didn’t send in the dog ) next day saw a Mexican eagle sitting in a tree @ the spot, waded into the mess and
Found the doe , opened her up and very very quickly saw only deflated lungs
Should have been mush & large exit wound? Imo very rare failure
But tips do break off sometimes in a ammunition belt after a while of carrying
Never thought about plugging and failure

 

[Wickss]

Again- all bullet do weird things at times. All of them. In legit terminal ballistics testing you see failures regularly- almost always they are failures to upset.

As for why they didn’t upset much- in this particular case it seems to be mainly caused by the tip Hornady uses. The nose opening on the 143’s is a good design, but the tip is brittle and tends to break off block the opening. Issues with the 143gr ELD-X’s are rare- I’ve not seen one in a lot of animals, but I have seen pictures of a couple.

I would have no issues continuing to use the 143, but I personally would switch bullet lot #’s.





Sure. To put it in perspective- with just monos, failure to upset and a larger wound than pinky is 20+ times more likely.







No. Both shots should have created a 4” wide wound. If that didn’t happen, it was just random bullet failure to upset.





No. While still rare, it happens more with ELD-M than it does with ELD-X’s.




They are pretty violent.

One of the most reliably upsetting bullets made is the 130gr TMK. Again, I would have any issue continueing to use the 143 ELD-X (change lots), but the 130gr TMK is the jam for 6.5cm.





Yep. That’s what happens most of the time.

Really appreciate the reply and info Form, with that 130 gr TMK is there a distance we need to stay away from? What i'm wanting for her with Deer/Antelope is the largest margin for error in shot placement with the best all around bullet.

Shot 1 was low, but still clipped the vitals, shot 2 I don't believe could have been placed better. I just expected the deer to react more than just stand there and keep chewing the turnip LOL. Like when ballistic gel is hit with the 143 eldx it seems to jump off the table violently.

Where we hunt and with my Daughter shots can be 50 yds - 300+ yds, but I also won't let her shoot past 300 yd, yet. She needs more practice/range time. I don't have experience with the TMK, but have read a lot about it here on Rokslide. Those ranges with the TMK in 6.5 CM should be good?

 

[Wickss]

Second shot impact appeared to hit here to me:

View attachment 986894

I have a still shot in my first post that shows the 1st shot placement, definitely a little low, but I don't believe quite as low as your red circle.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Second shot impact appeared to hit here to me:

View attachment 986894

Yeah could be the case. Hard to tell on my phone, the shot I posted could have been just the “ripple” but the angle and shape looked like it was a touch higher maybe?