Eastern MT??? Thoughts?

[USMC2602]

Last year was by far the lowest number of mule deer I’ve personally seen there in the last 15ish years. But, I applied yesterday and hope to be returning again this year. Beautiful country.

 

[WCB]

I've said it 1,000+ times. There is virtually zero reason to shoot a Mule Deer doe or a Prong horn doe. But still guys stack them up and think they are accomplishing something just because the tags are available. MN did the same thing in the early 2000s groups of guys I know literally would kill 30-40 deer in a week season, next year killed 20, next year confused they only shot 10, and were just besides them selves when they saw single digits and not everyone filled a tag.

G&F is 50% to blame for making the tags available and imo the hunters that fill those tags take the other 50%. But I forgot...as long as it is legal we all have to support everybody else and their dumb decisions.

 

[voltage]

I've said it 1,000+ times. There is virtually zero reason to shoot a Mule Deer doe or a Prong horn doe. But still guys stack them up and think they are accomplishing something just because the tags are available. MN did the same thing in the early 2000s groups of guys I know literally would kill 30-40 deer in a week season, next year killed 20, next year confused they only shot 10, and were just besides them selves when they saw single digits and not everyone filled a tag.

G&F is 50% to blame for making the tags available and imo the hunters that fill those tags take the other 50%. But I forgot...as long as it is legal we all have to support everybody else and their dumb decisions.

You should buy as many doe tags as the state allows and light them on fire.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

They did the same thing in Northern Missouri around the same timeframe. There was no limit to the number of doe tags you could buy. And surprise, surprise, a few years later they trimmed that down to 1. Only problem was at that point, you were hard pressed to even see a deer.

 

[voltage]

I am very interested to see what happens with the odds for 0 points for a NR General Deer tag.

2020 - 57%
2021 -55%
2022 - 54%

2023 - my guess... 25%

After hunting Montana each of the last 3 years, I think I will be sitting out the draw so that I can buy a point and hedge my bet for 2024/5.

 

[nubbin]

I've said it 1,000+ times. There is virtually zero reason to shoot a Mule Deer doe or a Prong horn doe. But still guys stack them up and think they are accomplishing something just because the tags are available. MN did the same thing in the early 2000s groups of guys I know literally would kill 30-40 deer in a week season, next year killed 20, next year confused they only shot 10, and were just besides them selves when they saw single digits and not everyone filled a tag.

G&F is 50% to blame for making the tags available and imo the hunters that fill those tags take the other 50%. But I forgot...as long as it is legal we all have to support everybody else and their dumb decisions.

South Arkansas had an abundance of deer for a long time. Lots of leases would see 20-30 deer a sit. Then they wanted better buck hunting. The QDMA answer was they need a better buck to doe ratio. So here’s 6 doe tags for each member. Shoot the does down for a better ratio, then Bam! Where are all the deer? There’s few bucks and fewer does!

 

[Jon Boy]

I've said it 1,000+ times. There is virtually zero reason to shoot a Mule Deer doe or a Prong horn doe. But still guys stack them up and think they are accomplishing something.

This


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[JasonDawes]

I have hunted the eastern part of MT my entire life (private and public) and the deer are definitely at rock bottom! Many contributing factors like CWD, Drought, excessive hunting pressure etc. it’s a very sick feeling to only see 5-10 deer in fields that I would see 50-75 in just a year ago.


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[mtwarden]

It gets more interesting when you look at a longer term picture. This is from MT FWP - these are ESTIMATES and the disclaimers at the bottom seem to leave a lot of leeway. It's probably at least accurate for TRENDS.

PS - For those who don't know - Region 7 is "SE MT" - the southeastern "1/7th" of the state.

View attachment 523337

I'd be curious what they changed in 2015 on estimating populations.

I left in 2013 and while the MD population was down somewhat, it sounds like it's really tanked and yet they show even lower numbers in 2012 than last year (2022). Mule deer pops were NOT dire in 2012. Whatever they changed in making their calculations, they must have really changed.

Actually R7 is closer to 1/4th vs 1/7th of the state, the largest region in the state

 

[ProStaffSteve]

What was the cause for low numbers in 2012? Wouldn’t that be Randy N and 2021 Steve R?

 

[Erict]

MT FWP publishes annual "estimates" and, lacking mandatory computerized reporting, it's all that is available. Some trends appear, including those relevant to "does/antlerless". If there truly is a problem, seem like FWP has enough data to justify adjustments.

- NR report taking more Mule Deer does per 100 hunters than Residents
- Residents report taking more White-tail does per 100 hunters than NR
- NR report taking a higher percentage of "mature" MD and WT deer than Residents
- who the hell is shooting all these fawns?

**-2021 is the year that FWP gifted alot of extra NR tags to those who were hunting with outfitters.

 

[Burg1]

What was the cause for low numbers in 2012? Wouldn’t that be Randy N and 2021 Steve R?

The winter of 2011 was brutal on Eastern Montana and Randy didn’t help much either

 

[sneaky]

I am very interested to see what happens with the odds for 0 points for a NR General Deer tag.

2020 - 57%
2021 -55%
2022 - 54%

2023 - my guess... 25%

After hunting Montana each of the last 3 years, I think I will be sitting out the draw so that I can buy a point and hedge my bet for 2024/5.

I bet after this winter the draw odds go up for NR deer. Lots of hunters are going to be sitting out.

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[sneaky]

I'll say it for the millionth time. There's absolutely ZERO reason that Montana can't do mandatory harvest reporting. They can charge through the roof for tags, but they can't get an accurate count on harvest. Inexcusable in this day and age.

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[voltage]

I bet after this winter the draw odds go up for NR deer. Lots of hunters are going to be sitting out.

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Across the west, you might be correct, but I doubt that in Montana due the majority of the MT deer population being non-migrating low elevation deer. Also, anyone can jump in to the zero point pool.

 

[voltage]

I'll say it for the millionth time. There's absolutely ZERO reason that Montana can't do mandatory harvest reporting. They can charge through the roof for tags, but they can't get an accurate count on harvest. Inexcusable in this day and age.

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Plus every other state... I just don't understand it.

 

[tboltz34]

MT FWP publishes annual "estimates" and, lacking mandatory computerized reporting, it's all that is available. Some trends appear, including those relevant to "does/antlerless". If there truly is a problem, seem like FWP has enough data to justify adjustments.

- NR report taking more Mule Deer does per 100 hunters than Residents
- Residents report taking more White-tail does per 100 hunters than NR
- NR report taking a higher percentage of "mature" MD and WT deer than Residents
- who the hell is shooting all these fawns?

**-2021 is the year that FWP gifted alot of extra NR tags to those who were hunting with outfitters.

View attachment 533435

Thanks for providing that information, Erict!

It looks like Montana is not differentiating between a hunter targeting mule deer vs a hunter targeting a whitetail. The numbers show that non-residents are more successful in harvesting more and better quality mule deer. I would assume that is because non-residents specifically target mule deer over whitetail. Non-residents have the option to harvest whitetail in their home state so they invest their time, money, and resources to hunt something different.

You mentioned that NRs are harvesting more mule deer does per 100 hunters. You are correct on that statistic. However, if you factor in the NRs are harvesting more mule deer (per 100 hunters) in general, the residents are harvesting a higher percentage of does vs bucks (does divided by bucks). The data show NRs are not the issue for harvesting more does. It shows that NRs are targeting the mule deer species over whitetails.

It's easy to blame NRs but I personally believe it's the states job to manage the wildlife. As decided in court, the US owns the federal land but the states own the wildlife. Everyone is a non-resident in 49 other states.

 

[100percent]

I saw similar results with WT last year and the MD numbers weren’t much better. My week was cold, heavy snow and high winds so, chalked it up to weather until I read this... My group struggled to see much better than a 3x. We passed on several older bucks with weak headgear while looking for something better! Better didn’t happen! Habitat looked much better than 21 season but, the deer looked about as bad as the habitat did in 21! Let’s hope for an early spring and better moisture this summer!!!

Repeat! Ouch!!! Should have saved my money!

 

[TradLife406]

My uncles place is a few minutes south of Havre. I noticed last year the WT were hurting pretty bad. This year was just as bad. I had to hunt hard for three days with my daughter and she was only able to take a three year old buck. First buck so whatever but if the herd had been what it should be there's no reason we couldn't find a more mature deer. We only saw a couple truly mature deer. Like EHD hit a year or two ago maybe?
Also noticed the mulies were low too. But we weren't really hunting those.
Maybe the six does a person for several years straight didn't help? Fudds shooting the first forken horn they see isn't good over all either.

 

[Sanchez]

I hunted region 7 near Broadus in 2018, 2019 and 2020. In 2018 and 2019 the mule deer were fat and healthy in November. In sudden contrast during November 2020 they were terribly skinny. The does I saw had zero fat going into winter and the forage looked depleted.

At least in the areas I was in, poor deer condition going into winter had to be bad for both over winter survival of adults, and the following spring's fawn crop. It could explain the region 7 mule deer decline (note post 13).