E collar advice

[longspeak74]

Looking for a little advice from the experienced guys.
We are currently fostering a GSP, 2 year old. Super sweet dog and has really taking to simple training - potty training, sit, stay. Our older GSP has kind of taken her under her wing. Unfortunately, she bolts at any sign of freedom. Like lightening fast with ZERO recall.
I trained our first on the e collar and it worked great. Corrects with tone, not zap. Wondering if it would work on the new girl with such a high motor.

 

[BravoNovember]

If you introduce it right it should work. But they need to understand the command and then why they get the shock. I watched a ton of YouTube videos on e collar conditioning, it helped a lot

 

[longspeak74]

You can tell she was never on a leash and never out of her kennel. She came from a puppy mill.
A slow introduction for sure.

 

[kman]

Agree with BN, if you intro it correctly and employ it correctly should do the trick. I ran Tri-Tronics on beagles for years with no issue. It should make taking her out a lot safer once she’s broke. YouTube and the manufacturer are your friend. Good luck.

 

[KurtR]

Use a leash and check cord first and teach recall. Then overlay that with proper collar conditioning. If not you will just get a collar wise dog that will have to always have a collar on.

 

[Aaron-in-CO]

Yep, our GSP would have a much worse life (perhaps even no life at all) without an e-collar. We adopted him around 6 years old and he also had zero leash or recall training. After much research and learning, we started working with dog training tools that we were initially hesitant about (prong collars, e-collars) and everyone has been having a blast since then!

To clarify, we do indeed use the stimulation feature of our e-collar. We have it a very low setting by default, but can "red button" him when he is being particularly stubborn or doing something potentially dangerous.

 

[longspeak74]

I am hopeful she'll someday hunt, points at things in our back yard which is fenced.
Regardless if we end up adopting or not, she'll be a better dog if I can get this under control.
Would you guys recommend getting a collar with stimulation and shock or would my current one suffice?

 

[Irish Miner]

Beautiful girl! Yep, I think you have already answered your own question. E-collars work and reinforce behavior and commands they have learned. My griff would do the same at two years old. It seems normal for an adolescent to sometimes ignore and dart off. Only took a couple of "zaps"for mine to learn after ignoring me and running off.. He's near 3 years old and no problems now. Collar always goes on when we go outside. He goes nuts when he see's it as he is conditioned to know we are going out for a stroll on the hill behind the house. Use your vocal command clearly when you know she is darting off and if she keeps going, hit the button. She'll learn. Positive reinforcement when she returns to you.

 

[kman]

For the safety of the dog I would recommend the stimulation but that would be your choice. In the end, if she responds well to the tone and returns then you’re good. For me the stimulation saved a dog’s life more than once.

 

[KurtR]

definitely want stim. Nobody I train with or know use anything but stim for conditioning or training. Once they are conditioned you could overlay the tone as more of a warning and if not coming back you nick. Your building compulsion to get back to you as fast as possible.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Use a leash and check cord first and teach recall. Then overlay that with proper collar conditioning. If not you will just get a collar wise dog that will have to always have a collar on.

This. Don’t get ahead of yourself. She has to learn to obey commands before you add the e collar.

Look up marker training. Keep her on a leash or a check cord unless you are in an enclosed yard.

Get a collar with both tone and stimulation. Start with juice and then figure out what you need once the dog learns to respond to pressure.

 

[mtnbound]

Looking for a little advice from the experienced guys.
We are currently fostering a GSP, 2 year old. Super sweet dog and has really taking to simple training - potty training, sit, stay. Our older GSP has kind of taken her under her wing. Unfortunately, she bolts at any sign of freedom. Like lightening fast with ZERO recall.
I trained our first on the e collar and it worked great. Corrects with tone, not zap. Wondering if it would work on the new girl with such a high motor.View attachment 800912

I have used a Garmin collar with Tone, Vibration, and Shock for years with multiple dogs with great success.

 

[longspeak74]

Thanks for all the advice guys! Put us on a good path and will look into all suggestions.

 

[copenmechanism]

if you decide to go ecollar — which I highly recommend! — you might want to consider using stim for correction and training the tone for recall. That’s what we did with our overactive pup and it allows us to overlay the recall command right in her ear, so she absolutely hears it even if she’s further out. Our trainer recommended it and I’m so glad he did.

That does mean though you can’t use tone as a warning and it also can complicate training for an electronic fence if you use that (we don’t).

 

[Rams horns]

You will get mixed opinions. Your best bet is to find a trainer in your area to help you out.

Despite what everyone says, there is no way to positively enforce an e-collar when the stim setting is used. This doesn't mean that he'll be fearful of it, necessarily, but it will be a negative reinforcer. I have, however, positively reinforced the tone on the collar.. when used correctly I am pro-ecollar, but many disagree.

 

[2ski]

if you decide to go ecollar — which I highly recommend! — you might want to consider using stim for correction and training the tone for recall. That’s what we did with our overactive pup and it allows us to overlay the recall command right in her ear, so she absolutely hears it even if she’s further out. Our trainer recommended it and I’m so glad he did.

That does mean though you can’t use tone as a warning and it also can complicate training for an electronic fence if you use that (we don’t).

This. For me tone is recall. He hears tone and know its the same as the whistle or me calling "here" to him.

Tp set it straight, there is no stim AND shock. There is no shock. Only stimulation. You want to get your mind thinking that way. Start on the lowest setting you determine the setting by seeing what level you just see a slight ear twitch or small indication they felt it. You are NOT looking for yipe yipe yipe. Again this is just for them to feel it. Not zap the dog. I like my garmins because I can push the bottom button for low, top button for medium, and both together for high, all without changing the level. 98% of the time all it takes is low. Again they need to just feel it a little. Not be in pain.

And I'm going to put this next part in caps not because I'm yelling but because it's important.

NEVER USE AN ECOLLAR TO ENFORCE A COMMAND THE DOG DOESNT KNOW.

You will confuse the dog. If you say "come" and hit the stim on your dog, and it doesn't know what that means, you're going to confuse it and it's not going to know why it's getting stimmed. As stated above, do check cord work in the yard. Then do off leash work in the yard. Have recall be something the dog is very very good at before you go off leash outside the yard. But right now, put the ecollar AND leash/check cord on when you go for walks, and leave the power off. You're not using it. Only getting it associated with fun times. This will get the dog excited when they see the ecollar. They learn to associate it with fun and not the stimulation.


I'm assuming you know how to train recall in the yard, but if not let me know and I'll throw you some tips.

 

[2ski]

You will get mixed opinions. Your best bet is to find a trainer in your area to help you out.

Despite what everyone says, there is no way to positively enforce an e-collar when the stim setting is used. This doesn't mean that he'll be fearful of it, necessarily, but it will be a negative reinforcer. I have, however, positively reinforced the tone on the collar.. when used correctly I am pro-ecollar, but many disagree.

Well positive reenforcement is praise and treats. I don't see anyone here implying the collar is positive reenforcement. Of course the collar is a negative reinforcement. It doesn't mean it needs to be painful.

 

[2ski]

You will get mixed opinions. Your best bet is to find a trainer in your area to help you out.

Despite what everyone says, there is no way to positively enforce an e-collar when the stim setting is used. This doesn't mean that he'll be fearful of it, necessarily, but it will be a negative reinforcer. I have, however, positively reinforced the tone on the collar.. when used correctly I am pro-ecollar, but many disagree.

How do you positively reenforce the tone? Give a treat when you hitt tone? That would only be telling the dog that tone means treat.

So you have your terminology straight, the tone is the reenforcement for you. You're not positively reinforcing the tone. The only way tone would be positive reenforcement is if you use it like clicker training. The tone would tell the dog "good boy" same as a clicker does. With you the tone is the command. Let's be clear about that. When you use tone, does the dog come back to you? Then it's a command. Or do you hit tone after the dog does something good? Then it's positive reenforcement.

 

[KurtR]

This. For me tone is recall. He hears tone and know its the same as the whistle or me calling "here" to him.

Tp set it straight, there is no stim AND shock. There is no shock. Only stimulation. You want to get your mind thinking that way. Start on the lowest setting you determine the setting by seeing what level you just see a slight ear twitch or small indication they felt it. You are NOT looking for yipe yipe yipe. Again this is just for them to feel it. Not zap the dog. I like my garmins because I can push the bottom button for low, top button for medium, and both together for high, all without changing the level. 98% of the time all it takes is low. Again they need to just feel it a little. Not be in pain.

And I'm going to put this next part in caps not because I'm yelling but because it's important.

NEVER USE AN ECOLLAR TO ENFORCE A COMMAND THE DOG DOESNT KNOW.

You will confuse the dog. If you say "come" and hit the stim on your dog, and it doesn't know what that means, you're going to confuse it and it's not going to know why it's getting stimmed. As stated above, do check cord work in the yard. Then do off leash work in the yard. Have recall be something the dog is very very good at before you go off leash outside the yard. But right now, put the ecollar AND leash/check cord on when you go for walks, and leave the power off. You're not using it. Only getting it associated with fun times. This will get the dog excited when they see the ecollar. They learn to associate it with fun and not the stimulation.


I'm assuming you know how to train recall in the yard, but if not let me know and I'll throw you some tips.

Screen shot this and read it. Burn the all caps in your head .

If you get in a fight and the dog eventually comes back to you make sure not to get angry and correct him when he comes . The dog will associate coming back is how I get corrected so why would I do that. You make being by your side his safe happy place .

 

[longspeak74]

Let me clarify how I did things with our older dog.
Voice commands first. If no response to those, I gave tone, if still no response she got a low-powered zap. Responded and I praised. Kept at this until tone only did the trick.
When she sees the collar come out, she is uber-happy cause she knows it's outside time. She just turned 6 and is an awesome dog.