Drying out down bags in a floorless with stove

[valtteri]

I switched to a floorless shelter (Sawtooth) with stove (LO 18”) a couple of months ago and will be going on a 7-day hunt next Sept/Oct in the Finnish Lapland. Rain is to be expected.

I have a down sleeping bag with hydrophobic down and DWR treated outer shell but am still a little bit worried about the bag getting wet and going flat from possible condensation in the shelter.

I probably won’t have time to test this out on a multi-day trip in similar conditions before the Sept/Oct hunt, so my question is:

Have you been able to dry your down bag in your floorless shelter with a stove?

My thoughts so far:
-hang the bag from the clothesline in the Sawtooth
-run the stove at full tilt to dry out the shelter
-keep running it moderately and maybe open the front doors of the Sawtooth to vent moisture

Any real-life experience out there?

 

[Kevin Dill]

Yes... Real life experience. Buy and install the condensation liners for your Sawtooth. They will help minimize condensation drip onto your bag. Don't plan on the center clothesline as it's fairly minimal and won't make for an effective way to air the bag. Do burn the stove if you have plenty of wood available. A dry interior will always minimize humidity. Sleep elevated on a low cot if possible. When you get a sunny or breezy day get that bag outside and open it up. If you give it basic attention you'll have little or no problem.

 

[jhm2023]

I've been running a floorless tipi and down bag for almost 7 years now. I've never had a problem with my down bag getting wet to the point it loses its loft and I've tried 4 different treated down bags. Some things I've learned that help mitigate getting your bag or anything else wet is 1) pitch the tent as tight as possible to prevent wind whipping the tent fabric which causes condensation to go flying in the tent. 2) maintain some space between your stuff and the wall. 3) always use an ultra light tarp underneath your sleep system. I always carry a stove but only burn it if my clothes and/or gear get soaked or if I want to knock of the chill while I'm just sitting around in the tent eating or something. I'm not one to be a slave to the woodstove and backpacking stoves don't burn for a long time. Anytime the weather permits regardless if my gear is wet or not I open everything up to air out to include my bag. Its best if you can force a cross draft inside the tent to speed the drying process. That only works if the weather is decent though. Like Kevin said basic attention to things really helps. Prevention is the key to keeping dry.

 

[texag10]

I noticed in my floorless shelter that a layer of thin plastic placed under my sleeping pad greatly reduced condensation from ground moisture. If you are forced to pitch over ground that is going to have a lot of moisture in it this could make a huge difference.

 

[Superkodiak38]

Question for those with more experience, If you are unable to keep your bag from touching the side wall ( feet) would sliding a contractor bag over the outside of the bag help or would it create other problems with it not venting your body's moisture ?

 

[3forks]

I think you have to be cautious about getting down wet; but it's really pretty hard to get a better quality bag wet enough to be compromised.

I've got a Western Mountaineering Versalite, and the shell of the bag is WM's least water resistant and durable. I too run a floorless tent, and wanted to see if spraying water on the bag like I would expect from condensation would get the bag wet. It didn't, and I eventually kept applying more and more water until I just made a fist sized divot in the bag a poured a glass of water into the divot. After 1/2 an hour, the water had not absorbed into the bag.

I don't think my 1/2 hour of direct water experiment proves that you might not have some dampness; but I do think with reasonable expectations/precaution you don't have to be too worried about your bag.

 

[valtteri]

Thanks guys - I really appreciate your input.

I’ve only taken the Sawtooth out for overnighters during the winter, but even after a 0F night the frost on the wall did not drip on the bag much when I was heating up the tipi and it was thawing.

And the liner, I had totally forgotten about that! I think I will buy that, just for some extra peace of mind.

Again, thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Schism]

Definitely get the liner! I used a mid-grade down bag in my Sawtooth last fall for 14 nights in Alaska. Not a single problem with condensation by following the recommendations already provided in this thread. I used a Helinox cot to get the bag off the ground, used the Sawtooth liner, and made sure there was space between the liner and the tent wall, and also that my bag wasn’t pressed tight against the liner. I never felt the need to hang the bag and only burned the stove pre-dawn and after sunset for maybe an hour each.

 

[Beendare]

I would agree with Kevin....though I can see where some guys have problems with it and some don't.

Its best to avoid that moisture to begin with....you can devise a liner pretty easy....sew a few loops into a seam adjacent to your bag.

I'm one of those guys that has problems with moisture...partially due to giving off a lot of moisture from my body when I sleep. It builds up in my bag in a few days of damp weather. I mostly use my Syn bag in those conditions.

There are other things you can do to help with condensation in those shelters.

It starts with more venting- lots of ways to do that.

Use a footprint- some of that moisture is radiating from the ground

Don't boil a bunch of stuff in the tent

Even a quick wipe down with a towel

Those kinds of things help...but on cold nights with temp differentials you will almost always get moisture forming on the walls of a poorly vented single wall tent....plan accordingly

As to drying out your bag.... pitch the tent in a location where it gets afternoon sun....this warms the tent so just leaving your bag on its pad drys it pretty good....assuming the ground is covered so you aren't creating more moisture.

 

[mlob1one]

Also consider a bivy if you are expecting excessive moisture. Sometimes no matter what you do the moisture can overwhelm your gear (bag, clothes, & kit). Even if you just put your bag in it while hunting in the day.

All other suggestions mentioned will absolutely help.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[cuerro viejo]

You can make a bivy out of tryvek

 

[colonel00]

The tricky thing with a bivy is that it can cause more condensation by holding moist air in which can defeat the purpose of protecting the outside of your bag.

I've never had any major issues with condensation getting a bag/quilt too wet. Sure it can happen I guess but you would have to have a rain forest in your tent to soak something. Last fall I had my Cimarron collapse on me in Alaska after an evening of rain turned to heavy snow. There was a good amount of condensation on the fly when it fell and that basically got everything wet. Still, once I got the tent back up, it wasn't like my quilt was soaked all the way through. A little damp on the surface but still plenty warm.

 

[rayporter]

15 minutes of sunshine is worth about 5 hours of stoking the stove. hang it every chance you get.

 

[MAVinWA]

when using my TUT, I combine my down bag inserted into a bivy bag.
wish Kifaru made a liner or 1/2 liner for Tut. Ordering one custom made and looking forward to receiving it.

 

[jhm2023]

I used a bivy on one hunt because it was heavy fog and rain for a week straight on the north slope of the brooks. Needless to say I only used the bivy for one night because my bag actually got even wetter from the condensation it trapped. So it did more harm than good in my case. The only way I can see a bivy being beneficial is if you use it as a standalone shelter for your bag. I have a lfair amount of experience using my floorless shelter on the slope (30+ days a year) where the ground is extremely wet. A ground tarp will do you more good than a bivy will. I also always carry a pack towel. Its mostly for drying off after a stream crossing but during really wet conditions I use it to wipe the walls of the tent. In my opinion using floorless shelters in wet conditions has somewhat of a learning curve but I wouldn't use a floored tent anymore after being spoiled with living in a floorless.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Your body is constantly emitting moisture 24-7. Eight hours in a sleeping bag equates to probably between 4-6 ounces of moisture emitted as vapor. Some of it contained in respired air (breath) and some is emitted directly through the skin. That moisture is what generally ends up absorbed into a sleeping bag. In drier conditions that moisture largely evaporates into lower humidity air during the day, but it doesn't work like that in cold, wet conditions. We generally all know this, but it helps to be reminded of the need to keep that bag aired out as much as possible. And obviously it's critical to keep external sources of moisture away from the bag. I always think of my sleeping bag as a sponge which is holding invisible moisture, and I try to do what I can to drive out that moisture periodically.

 

[Beendare]

Your body is constantly emitting moisture 24-7. Eight hours in a sleeping bag equates to probably between 4-6 ounces of moisture emitted as vapor. Some of it contained in respired air (breath) and some is emitted directly through the skin. That moisture is what generally ends up absorbed into a sleeping bag. In drier conditions that moisture largely evaporates into lower humidity air during the day, but it doesn't work like that in cold, wet conditions. We generally all know this, but it helps to be reminded of the need to keep that bag aired out as much as possible. And obviously it's critical to keep external sources of moisture away from the bag. I always think of my sleeping bag as a sponge which is holding invisible moisture, and I try to do what I can to drive out that moisture periodically.

^well said...and it varies between guys. An example was my buddy and I on a high country Co elk hunt many years ago in one of those SL 5 tipis. My down bag was noticeably heavier from the moisture when sleeping...it never dried from surrounding air in the socked in the clouds for a couple days at 10,700' even running the stove an hour a day. My buddies bag hardly showed any signs...just a little moisture off the tipi walls [not a fan of catenary cut tents]

I give off a lot of moisture...he doesn't.

BTW, we would have been better off NOT running the stove on those cold mornings as it melted the frozen condensation and made it worse. It takes running the stove awhile to burn off that moisture.

One clear warm day and a couple hours of airing my bag outside in the sun and it was fine.

 

[Mansfield Outdoors]

...or, if weight permits, you could go with a canvas tipi and eliminate these condensation issues altogether.

When you start to add the extra weight of liners, etc. the difference between a smaller sized canvas Tentipi and the other single wall nylon tipi's starts to even out.

Canvas breathes, it allows the moisture to escape through the pores in the weave of the fabric. Tentipi Nordic tipi's have the ability to open the entire top of the tent to help facilitate ventilation, and they also have built-in ground vents designed to take advantage of the natural "chimney effect" created by the rising warmer air. In our opinion a tipi isn't really a tipi if the top doesn't open up to take advantage of the chimney effect. Otherwise it's only a cone shaped tent.

Yes, these features add some weight, but when considering the benefits these features provide, the weight-versus-benefits equation often tips in favor of the canvas Tentipi.

This condensation issue in single-wall nylon tents IS a real problem but it doesn't have to be that way. As the Tentipi dealer, and sponsor of this forum, we try to stay away from constant pitching of our products here, but when we hear and read about all the condensation problems people are dealing with we feel like we need to remind people it doesn't have to be that way.

Tentipi's breathable, lightweight, canvas tipi's virtually eliminate the condensation problem and might be an option for you to consider.

Check them out here - Tentipi Nordic tipi tents & stoves. USA based authorized distributor | MansfieldOutdoors.com

 

[huntsman22]

And the little batter-powered tent fans can really help dry things out faster...

 

[SHTF]

a Well made Bivy should emit your vapors just fine. get one thats waterproof on the bottom with a light water repellent top that breathes really well.