Drop camp vs guided

[Poser]

Having done neither a drop camp or a guided hunt, here's what I have observed as a person who spends quite a bit of time out and about in the mountains:

If you leave your drop camp location up to your outfitter, they will put you somewhere peripheral to their guided camps that is convenient for them to outfit you. If you choose your own location, you will often not have enough information about the area to choose a optimal location with regards to other hunting camps and recreational access (often WAY underestimated).

From the drop camp locations that I have observed and interacted with over the years, I would personally only find value in choosing my own location based on what I have personally observed about that particular location and the biggest factors would that it is not on the recreational radar and there aren't other camps in that immediate area. I've seen people presumably pay big money to get into difficult to access areas only find that they are in an area very popular for climbers who have their own network of social trails. One such area I have seen drop camps in can easily have 25 tents set up on a nice September weekend. There was a stretch of time where I ran into a local guide multiple times during a season and he told me about a drop camp that his outfitter $$$ to clear a climbers social trail (so they could get horses in there) into a basin popular for climbers. It happened to be nice weather, the party stayed back there for 10 days and didn't see a single elk.

I've seen people choose what appears to be a serene and remote alpine lake that is part of a very popular fastpacker and overnight backpacking loop where, on a nice Sept weekend, they may have 40-60 people coming up through the drainage, through their camp and over the saddle to the next drainage, making the area immediately accessible around their camp effectively devoid of elk. Some very remote and seemingly prime elk country can often be very popular for different sub user groups that hunters would never even consider, often with so much traffic through the summer months that there just aren't any elk in these drainage systems.

With that in mind and with no way to make these assessments from afar, mobile hunting is going to be your better bet until you have enough information to make a judgement call about committing to a drop camp.

 

[Jethro]

But it wouldn't be solo, all of us are avid hunters

If that’s the case, forget the guide. You’ll be fine. Yes the learning curve is steep and odds are against you while new. We have lots of dam fun memories from the early years, albeit mostly unsuccessful. Eventually got it figured out and have had good success since.

I don’t believe putting drop camps at bad spots is common. The 2 outfitters we’ve used and 2 more that I’m familiar with want their hunters to be successful. That said the 2 drops we’ve done, we chose the area we wanted and found outfitters that worked the area. We did not go in blind.

 

[kzeke]

Having done neither a drop camp or a guided hunt, here's what I have observed as a person who spends quite a bit of time out and about in the mountains:

If you leave your drop camp location up to your outfitter, they will put you somewhere peripheral to their guided camps that is convenient for them to outfit you. If you choose your own location, you will often not have enough information about the area to choose a optimal location with regards to other hunting camps and recreational access (often WAY underestimated).

From the drop camp locations that I have observed and interacted with over the years, I would personally only find value in choosing my own location based on what I have personally observed about that particular location and the biggest factors would that it is not on the recreational radar and there aren't other camps in that immediate area. I've seen people presumably pay big money to get into difficult to access areas only find that they are in an area very popular for climbers who have their own network of social trails. One such area I have seen drop camps in can easily have 25 tents set up on a nice September weekend. There was a stretch of time where I ran into a local guide multiple times during a season and he told me about a drop camp that his outfitter $$$ to clear a climbers social trail (so they could get horses in there) into a basin popular for climbers. It happened to be nice weather, the party stayed back there for 10 days and didn't see a single elk.

I've seen people choose what appears to be a serene and remote alpine lake that is part of a very popular fastpacker and overnight backpacking loop where, on a nice Sept weekend, they may have 40-60 people coming up through the drainage, through their camp and over the saddle to the next drainage, making the area immediately accessible around their camp effectively devoid of elk. Some very remote and seemingly prime elk country can often be very popular for different sub user groups that hunters would never even consider, often with so much traffic through the summer months that there just aren't any elk in these drainage systems.

With that in mind and with no way to make these assessments from afar, mobile hunting is going to be your better bet until you have enough information to make a judgement call about committing to a drop camp.

alot of quality information here, thank you!

 

[Castle Oak]

Poser and Jethro nailed it. After being DIY for years, my buddies and I elected to do a drop camp (we're getting old and lazy). We did our homework on spots but ended up going with an outfitter's established camp. Wrong move on our part as we were the 3rd group to hunt that camp. So it was no surprise that we saw no elk and very little sign. If you can pick a spot and have an outfitter drop you there, that's what I would do. But, I will never hunt an established drop camp location again.

 

[kzeke]

If that’s the case, forget the guide. You’ll be fine. Yes the learning curve is steep and odds are against you while new. We have lots of dam fun memories from the early years, albeit mostly unsuccessful. Eventually got it figured out and have had good success since.

I don’t believe putting drop camps at bad spots is common. The 2 outfitters we’ve used and 2 more that I’m familiar with want their hunters to be successful. That said the 2 drops we’ve done, we chose the area we wanted and found outfitters that worked the area. We did not go in blind.

it sounds like you and i are similar to each other in this aspect. I would much prefer to figure it out on my own but just didn't know how steep this learning curve would be, and didn't want to take 10 years to figure it out 7-10 days at a time lol

 

[Pony Soldier]

When I started in my current area, I could go nearly everywhere and find elk and deer. However it took 5 years for me to learn travel patterns and migration patterns related to weather.

The massive die-off of the lodgepole, fires, logging, and changes in weather, have drastically changed the patterns I depended on for the last 30 years. I have lost roughly 40% of my dependable/predictable hunting blocks. I have to be flexible and creative to continue to find elk.

I know I hunt difficult areas in my attempt to avoid traffic and people, but I would be inclined to choose a location with maximum flexibility until you develop an understanding of the country and the elk.

An outfitter just gives you a good infrastructure to work from and their area of expertise. It might be a place to start without any knowledge base.

 

[kzeke]

When I started in my current area, I could go nearly everywhere and find elk and deer. However it took 5 years for me to learn travel patterns and migration patterns related to weather.

The massive die-off of the lodgepole, fires, logging, and changes in weather, have drastically changed the patterns I depended on for the last 30 years. I have lost roughly 40% of my dependable/predictable hunting blocks. I have to be flexible and creative to continue to find elk.

I know I hunt difficult areas in my attempt to avoid traffic and people, but I would be inclined to choose a location with maximum flexibility until you develop an understanding of the country and the elk.

An outfitter just gives you a good infrastructure to work from and their area of expertise. It might be a place to start without any knowledge base.

What would be some things to look for to find a spot with maximum flexibility?


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[MallardSX2]

Nothing against anyone who wants to use a drop camp or guide service but I think it’s pure crazy to pay $2500-$4000 per hunter to take a 2-3 hour pony ride into an area that you know little about to be left at a wall tent. I can for sure see the allure to an outfitter doing these though. It’s fast money.

To each their own, but there is just no way I could pay that.

 

[Poser]

I once saw a drop camp that was in the middle of a sheep grazing area. I was up high glassing around and noticed a tent surrounded by sheep. Later that day, I talked to an outfitter who was riding his horse back from that camp as he had been tasked with delivering a case of beer. Apparently, the drop campers weren't sleeping well because of the constant sound of sheep and cowbells. He said that the clients wanted to be in that spot at the top of a drainage, which was a mere 30 minute horseback ride from the closests guided camp. To make matters worse, I wouldn't even consider drinking from their water source due to the fact that sheep had been grazing there all summer. -no idea if they considered that or not.

and I wonder how much that case of beer cost them?

 

[Pony Soldier]

Kzeke:
I guess I would look for some place distant from cities and towns, had trail systems, limited summer cabins and had a number of drainages within an half hour drive of a reasonable camping location. With Google Earth you ought to be able to scan exposure, roads and spotting locations. Couple that with federal travel plans for road closures during season. That ought to give you places to start.

If you start there and then question local agency biologists on potential herds, access, and hunting pressure, you might be able to narrow down your targets.

 

[kzeke]

Kzeke:
I guess I would look for some place distant from cities and towns, had trail systems, limited summer cabins and had a number of drainages within an half hour drive of a reasonable camping location. With Google Earth you ought to be able to scan exposure, roads and spotting locations. Couple that with federal travel plans for road closures during season. That ought to give you places to start.

If you start there and then question local agency biologists on potential herds, access, and hunting pressure, you might be able to narrow down your targets.

I will start there, thank you for the help and all the info


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[GotDraw?]

If there are no elk w/in reasonable hike of your drop camp, you'll be hosed. Unable to easily pack up and move. If you do plan to bring sufficient gear to bivvy out, then you might as well truck hunt and hike in: Find fresh elk sign = stay. No elk/fresh sign = pivot to new location. ALSO-- you have to be able to get your elk to a trail so your guide can come and get it w/horses. Do not count on your guide being able to get the elk you dropped 2 miles off the trail through steep, nasty deadfall. This can create opportunity for meat spoiling if your guide is off with guided clients while you're stuck on a drop camp... waiting.

 

[MallardSX2]

This can create opportunity for meat spoiling if your guide is off with guided clients while you're stuck on a drop camp... waiting.

That would be my biggest fear and I’m sure it happens a lot more than people talk about. I’m good with meat care but sometimes things need to be expedited. Entering another person into that situation causes delays that I find intolerable.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

I'd recommend adjusting expectations too.

Continue your desire to learn but with a focus on "enjoying the process". Maybe by focusing on that you'll see success but if not, then you'll have fun, learn and grow. Starting from scratch on public otc archery bull hunting takes crazy luck or a lot of lessons, learning and effort.

If you can afford a guide, that would definitely help chance of success and help the learning curve, though even with one, in such a short span it can't replace your time out there hunting, e-scouting, learning, enjoying and improving.

If you can't afford a guide, I'd consider having a goal to find an area you can hunt every year or at least return to when you have time. Then you'll have a big leap up every year rather than starting from scratch in a new one. It could take a little trial and error to find that area, but then try to stick with it.

E-scouting works! There's tons of content out there to learn about and e-scout elk in September. Between OnX and Google Earth, it's crazy what a help they are.

Congrats on the new adventures and enjoy the process.

 

[kzeke]

I'd recommend adjusting expectations too.

Continue your desire to learn but with a focus on "enjoying the process". Maybe by focusing on that you'll see success but if not, then you'll have fun, learn and grow. Starting from scratch on public otc archery bull hunting takes crazy luck or a lot of lessons, learning and effort.

If you can afford a guide, that would definitely help chance of success and help the learning curve, though even with one, in such a short span it can't replace your time out there hunting, e-scouting, learning, enjoying and improving.

If you can't afford a guide, I'd consider having a goal to find an area you can hunt every year or at least return to when you have time. Then you'll have a big leap up every year rather than starting from scratch in a new one. It could take a little trial and error to find that area, but then try to stick with it.

E-scouting works! There's tons of content out there to learn about and e-scout elk in September. Between OnX and Google Earth, it's crazy what a help they are.

Congrats on the new adventures and enjoy the process.

Thank you, I agree with all of that. Success on a guided hunt isn’t a must and at the end of the day it’s still hunting. The main reason I would go with a guided trip is just to pick their brain for a week. So my best to find a balance between learning as much as I can while not driving them nuts with questions


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[lifeisgoodsteve]

Thank you, I agree with all of that. Success on a guided hunt isn’t a must and at the end of the day it’s still hunting. The main reason I would go with a guided trip is just to pick their brain for a week. So my best to find a balance between learning as much as I can while not driving them nuts with questions


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When I first started archery elk hunting I actually did a horseback guided cow elk hunt in WY, for similar reasons as yours. It was an awesome experience and of course we saw huge bulls but very few cows. Didn't fill my tag but was just great being out there. Also, the guided cow hunt was way less expensive than a bull hunt.

That said, I didn't learn anywhere near as much as the hours and effort I've spent learning about elk, onX, backpack scouting and then hunting. Kind of like learning directions somewhere, when someone else is driving I rarely remember the details, but when I'm driving I recall a heck of a lot more.

 

[Jwm76939]

I haven’t done guided but I have done drop camp. Learned a lot from it and now I do it myself on my back. My only complaint on drop camp was the guide service didn’t come pick up the meat like they should have, instead waited another 3 days to get it on our pack out. In the end it was fine, but it was questionable as weather was up into the 50’s during the day.