Does the 223/6mm for everything change when hunt cost $$$

[ElPollo]

If we actually want to be realistic to the question and hunting conditions I don’t think the price has anything to do with it I think a 22 cal or 24 cal would be a pretty great choice for Marco Polo and Mountain Nyala but I don’t think it would be ideal to the conditions they live in. Marco Polo is a very rugged hunt and it’s a good possibility that you could be taking a 700+yd shot on one across a canyon in very high gusting winds, I think something along the line of a 28 cal magnum with a super high bc bullet would be an ideal choice for the hunt. As for the Mountain Nyala they are very very skittish to begin with and they live in a very thick environment the hardest part would be getting eyes on one and good shot opportunity’s are few and far between, the chance of taking a less than ideal shot on one would be pretty high. As for the caliber I think a something along the lines of a 28 or 30 cal with a controlled expansion or copper bullet would be pretty good or even something like a 375H&H if you needed take an extremely steep quartering or even a “Texas heart shot ”.

So we are back in unlikely scenario land. As long as we are here, what are the conditions where you would “need to take” a 700+ yard steep quartering away or a butt-hole shot? I’m seriously wondering if that should be a marketing thing. “When you really need it, nothing destroys a butt-hole from a half mile away like a 28 Ass-Womper.” I wonder why Nosler never thought of that.

 

[TaperPin]

Looks to me like it's considerably less than you've been led to believe.
Here's a super slow motion of the muzzle blast and I see zero movement until well after the bullet is gone.

This video shows how much a rifle moves in recoil before the bullet comes out - 338 Lapua Magnum, 300 grain Scenar from a Barrett MRAD. It's amazing... | By Bryan Litz BallisticsFacebook

This video shows how much a rifle moves in recoil before the bullet comes out - 338 Lapua Magnum, 300 grain Scenar from a Barrett MRAD. It's amazing...

www.facebook.com

Rifles follow basic physics. I find it funny that you guys are arguing for less movement, which still makes my original point - the rifle moves so little at the point the bullet leaves the barrel, that wonky accuracy is from the shooter anticipating the shot.

 

[plebe]

So we are back in unlikely scenario land. As long as we are here, what are the conditions where you would “need to take” a 700+ yard steep quartering away or a butt-hole shot? I’m seriously wondering if that should be a marketing thing. “When you really need it, nothing destroys a butt-hole from a half mile away like a 28 Ass-Womper.” I wonder why Nosler never thought of that.

The premise of this entire thread is an unlikely scenario.

But a 700+ yard shot with a .223 TMK seems a bit of a push. Good on ya if you can pull it off…and with tens of thousands in expenses into it.

Then again, tens of thousands aren’t much for some and oh the thrill of high fives from some WKRs. Worth it, lol.

Folks who hunt with 77 TMKs are free to vote honestly, but the fellow who said that a lot of tangential stuff would be the core of the discussion got it mostly right, imo.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

This video shows how much a rifle moves in recoil before the bullet comes out - 338 Lapua Magnum, 300 grain Scenar from a Barrett MRAD. It's amazing... | By Bryan Litz BallisticsFacebook

This video shows how much a rifle moves in recoil before the bullet comes out - 338 Lapua Magnum, 300 grain Scenar from a Barrett MRAD. It's amazing...

www.facebook.com

And...?
So it takes a .338 lapua without a suppressor or brake to move a gun less than a tenth of an inch prior to departure. You didn't write anything so I don't know exactly what point you're attempting to make.

 

[TaperPin]

And...?
So it takes a .338 lapua without a suppressor or brake to move a gun less than a tenth of an inch prior to departure. You didn't write anything so I don't know exactly what point you're attempting to make.

Yep - that went clear over your head.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Yep - that went clear over your head.

Nothing can go over my head, I would catch it.
(Drax quote, don't get too excited)

That’s dependent on basic physics - some guns are much less and some are more than 1/4”.

Rifles follow basic physics. I find it funny that you guys are arguing for less movement, which still makes my original point - the rifle moves so little at the point the bullet leaves the barrel, that wonky accuracy is from the shooter anticipating the shot.

The point was that you were saying some guns move 1/4+" before the bullet leaves the barrel, whatever math you're referring to is either incorrect or your batteries are going bad.

 

[Billy Goat]

Wait, wait, wait....




Is this the lightweight backcountry cinderblock we been waiting on?

 

[Castmaster]

So we are back in unlikely scenario land. As long as we are here, what are the conditions where you would “need to take” a 700+ yard steep quartering away or a butt-hole shot? I’m seriously wondering if that should be a marketing thing. “When you really need it, nothing destroys a butt-hole from a half mile away like a 28 Ass-Womper.” I wonder why Nosler never thought of that.

Who said it has to do with “Ass-Womping”? Also what do you think a likely scenario would be in the mountains of Tajikistan?

 

[plebe]

Wait, wait, wait....


View attachment 715636

Is this the lightweight backcountry cinderblock we been waiting on?

Cash box for in country pay-offs. Smart. Multi-purpose too.

Or backup 77 TMK rounds. Yikes. Thought 1 round was enough. Turks and Caicos these hunts are not.

 

[Marbles]

 

[plebe]

View attachment 715645

Lol, ya’ll doing a lot of spooning.

 

[ElPollo]

Who said it has to do with “Ass-Womping”? Also what do you think a likely scenario would be in the mountains of Tajikistan?

You brought up the butt-hole shot as a way to justify needing a big magnum. If I ignore the reference to the butt or rumen shot and treat all this fiction as a real scenario, I guess my question should have been how do you expect to train for that “700+ yard cross canyon shot in high gusting winds” and how many rounds do you expect to shoot during that training?

 

[mt100gr.]

I hear you, but sourcing 77gr TMK in NZ is difficult now. I may try them. But also I should just state my experience is on culls we'll be out with guys shooting 223 and heavier calibres like 270 and I can see very clearly the animals go down harder/faster when hit with the 270 vs. 223. I say the same for using my 6.5x55. It definitely kills, but if I don't want them running I'd rather the 270.

I have to say, that since my daughters and I have started hunting with a .223 and 77TMKs I have never seen deer go down harder with shots in the front half. I've killed dozens with 30-06, 7mmRM, 300wm, 30-30, 6.5cm, 6.5saum, 44mag over the years with traditional "hunting" bullets and got a lot of good lessons on blood trailing.

Maybe my girls are just lucky but of the 5 deer they've taken from 115yds to right at 300yds, I don't think they've managed more than 10 steps all combined.

 

[plebe]

I have to say, that since my daughters and I have started hunting with a .223 and 77TMKs I have never seen deer go down harder with shots in the front half. I've killed dozens with 30-06, 7mmRM, 300wm, 30-30, 6.5cm, 6.5saum, 44mag over the years with traditional "hunting" bullets and got a lot of good lessons on blood trailing.

Maybe my girls are just lucky but of the 5 deer they've taken from 115yds to right at 300yds, I don't think they've managed more than 10 steps all combined.

Congrats to the girls. Job well done.

 

[Castmaster]

You brought up the butt-hole shot as a way to justify needing a big magnum. If I ignore the reference to the butt or rumen shot and treat all this fiction as a real scenario, I guess my question should have been how do you expect to train for that “700+ yard cross canyon shot in high gusting winds” and how many rounds do you expect to shoot during that training?

Me bringing that up had to do with the Mountain Nyala hunt where it would most likely be a very close and brief opportunity to get a shot off do to the thick environment they live in, that’s why I suggested a large cartridge with a deep penetrating bullet.

 

[plebe]

You brought up the butt-hole shot as a way to justify needing a big magnum. If I ignore the reference to the butt or rumen shot and treat all this fiction as a real scenario, I guess my question should have been how do you expect to train for that “700+ yard cross canyon shot in high gusting winds” and how many rounds do you expect to shoot during that training?

Let’s have your approach/routine as well.

 

[yeti12]

It’s a conservation of center of mass problem - bullet and powder go one direction and rifle goes the other. The distance x mass of all the moving parts has to net to zero. I think if you check the math, it’s considerably more than what you were led to believe - don’t trust me - do the math yourself.

I wasn't led to believe anything. Ive watched multiple rifles fired next to a scale with high speed cameras capturing the distance the barrel moves before muzzle exit.

You literally have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. You are just hoping that you sound smart after saying pure jibberish.


The math to calculate that is significantly more complex than you believe it is.

 

[yeti12]

Just as a visual, here's a lightweight 308's barrel movement before the bullet leaves the bore. Shown by the red line.

 

[plebe]

Just as a visual, here's a lightweight 308's barrel movement before the bullet leaves the bore. Shown by the red line.View attachment 715670

So, nearly 1/4” from a .308? Lol. And the resistant force (backstop) for this exercise was?

Idk, this back and forth over in-line recoil distance really detracts from the point that was previously made. Recoil anticipation (flinch) is most often a much more destructive factor. This is favorable to the light recoiling cartridge argument.

However, it’s just one performance factor, and has as much to do with the individual shooter as it does the cartridge.

 

[Machingeaneer]

I think there would be a couple votes for "expensive hunts make me an ass-shooter" in a poll.