Does the 223/6mm for everything change when hunt cost $$$

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Is "wallop" measured in pancakes??

The juxtaposition between this and Form's post back to back is great

 

[william schmaltz]

Seems half the people don't like memes, so I'd automatically find half the opinions subject, personally.

Wen memes?

 

[5811]

So the part that's translucent is like cardboard, what about the ridges? If those overlay a rib, are we getting into plywood territory? Maybe some of that fancy compressed laminate flooring? Wood paneling over drywall?

 

[PaulDogs]

Exactly this happened on a spring bear hunt this year. The outfitter knew I was carrying a .223, the guide did not. He had an existential crisis when he figured it out.

Did the outfitter know 223 was your choice before arriving? I’d love to hear how the whole process played out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

View attachment 715487

So the part that's translucent is like cardboard, what about the ridges? If those overlay a rib, are we getting into plywood territory? Maybe some of that fancy compressed laminate flooring? Wood paneling over drywall?

Maybe 1/2” plywood. Look at the scapula ridge closely in the first one- there’s a hole through it.


Here’s the other- straight through the ridge, a rib, and both lungs.




The joint (knuckle) of the humerus and scapula is what is a real test for a bullet…

But that too isn’t a problem-

 

[Marbles]

It’s a self fulfilling prediction - if you consciously and subconsciously believe recoil will reduce your ability to hold the rifle steady, then it will. Everyone has a different tolerance, but to simply say we’re victoms of recoil and there is nothing that can be done, is far from the truth. Poor shooting due to recoil is completely anticipation - a rifle will only recoil 1/4” or so before the bullet leaves the barrel.

So, 1/20 of an inch of angular shift over a 24 inch barrel becomes a 7.5 inch POI shift at 100 yards. It is very conceivable that my 3 inch 308 groups represent a 0.009 inch angular shift in the muzzle (16.5 inch barrel, considering a 1 inch group as baseline from 223) due to recoil.

The idea that 1/4 inch is no big deal is mathematically ignorant.

The mechanics of how recoil is controlled will influence the angular shift, however, the idea that it is small enough to be discounted is ridiculous. A shooters consistency in controlling recoil influences if POI will be consistent, start throwing in odd positions and that consistency goes down, resulting in PIO shifts.

Those shifts have nothing to do with anticipation, though anticipation can certainly make things worse.

 

[texag10]

106gr TAP (analogous to ELDM from what I've read here) from a 6mm ARC after going through auto glass.

Shoulders aren't an issue.

 

[ElPollo]

The comment about a bullet penetrating a “squirrel and a cardboard box” made me laugh out loud.

I find it really interesting that so many roksliders have apparently avoided reading the 223 thread that is always at the top of the firearms forum and is the most popular and largest thread on the forum. I would expect people outside of rokslide to give side-eye at the idea of a 223 on big game, but it’s surprising that people within rokslide have not bothered to look at that thread.

 

[solarshooter]

The comment about a bullet penetrating a “squirrel and a cardboard box” made me laugh out loud.

I find it really interesting that so many roksliders have apparently avoided reading the 223 thread that is always at the top of the firearms forum and is the most popular and largest thread on the forum. I would expect people outside of rokslide to give side-eye at the idea of a 223 on big game, but it’s surprising that people within rokslide have not bothered to look at that thread.

Genuinely curious, since I haven't dug through it in a while, is there a single instance of failure to kill reported on that thread?

 

[yeti12]

106gr TAP (analogous to ELDM from what I've read here) from a 6mm ARC after going through auto glass.

Shoulders aren't an issue.

I love that people are saving that. My one contribution to rokslide lol.

And all those gel blocks get x rayed for lead fragmentation. Copper solid bullet makers are lying to you.

 

[ElPollo]

So, 1/20 of an inch of angular shift over a 24 inch barrel becomes a 7.5 inch POI shift at 100 yards. It is very conceivable that my 3 inch 308 groups represent a 0.009 inch angular shift in the muzzle (16.5 inch barrel, considering a 1 inch group as baseline from 223) due to recoil.

The idea that 1/4 inch is no big deal is mathematically ignorant.

The mechanics of how recoil is controlled will influence the angular shift, however, the idea that it is small enough to be discounted is ridiculous. A shooters consistency in controlling recoil influences if POI will be consistent, start throwing in odd positions and that consistency goes down, resulting in PIO shifts.

Those shifts have nothing to do with anticipation, though anticipation can certainly make things worse.

 

[texag10]

I love that people are saving that. My one contribution to rokslide lol.

And all those gel blocks get x rayed for lead fragmentation. Copper solid bullet makers are lying to you.

I found it to show some shit talking friends the performance of 147gr ELDM out of a 6.5 cm to compare to a solid copper .308 projectile.

Great minds think alike.

 

[yeti12]

I found it to show some shit talking friends the performance of 147gr ELDM out of a 6.5 cm to compare to a solid copper .308 projectile.

Great minds think alike.

Here's a 147eldm after going through auto glass.

 

[yeti12]

And bare gel for comparison sake

 

[ElPollo]

Genuinely curious, since I haven't dug through it in a while, is there a single instance of failure to kill reported on that thread?

No failures. The only way I can see getting a failure with the 223/77 TMK combo is if you grossly miss your target. The one complaint some have had is an occasional lack of an exit wound. The general pattern for a 77 gr TMK in a 223 is a 12–18” long wound channel that is about 4” in diameter. Distance traveled after the shot is generally less than 50 yards. So you are getting a combo that hammers big game that also has 3-5# of recoil energy and allows you to shoot more accurately, spot your own shots through the scope, and stay on target for faster follow-up shots. Most people who use larger calibers tend to use controlled expansion bullets that result in similar to less wound cavity volume and they are paying a heavy tax in the form of increased recoil. It’s worth going through the thread. The wound channel pics are impressive.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Genuinely curious, since I haven't dug through it in a while, is there a single instance of failure to kill reported on that thread?

Here's one. Shot placement issue.

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/howa-barreled-mini-action-223rem-bl-standard-22-12x28-tc/ SNIPER10 gets you another 10% off. Tough to beat that deal.

rokslide.com

Not a total failure but less than optimal results, again with a placement issue.

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

So, certainly not a failure story, but more of a "I need to manage my expectations" story... This past weekend my daughter shot a medium sized mulie doe, impact MV around 2150. Got fragmentation and exit, entered 2-3" behind the crease of the shoulder and exited a couple inches in front of the...

rokslide.com

 

[solarshooter]

So either this combo is near 100% successful, or we are getting some confirmation or reporting bias. The first seems less likely than the second, to me. Just saying we should be careful taking a thread full of dead animals as evidence that the combo is 100% effective. It likely has some real failure rate, as all bullets/cartridges do. We don't have a "7RM success thread" to point at for an apples to apples comparison, but I imagine it would be pretty long and mostly full of successes as well.

 

[yeti12]

So either this combo is near 100% successful, or we are getting some confirmation or reporting bias. The first seems less likely than the second, to me. Just saying we should be careful taking a thread full of dead animals as evidence that the combo is 100% effective. It likely has some real failure rate, as all bullets/cartridges do. We don't have a "7RM success thread" to point at for an apples to apples comparison, but I imagine it would be pretty long and mostly full of successes as well.

There's a 6mm and 6.5mm thread also.

No one has ever said a 7 mag can't kill something. People just say it about the small calibers.

 

[Formidilosus]

So either this combo is near 100% successful, or we are getting some confirmation or reporting bias. The first seems less likely than the second, to me.

Yes, because so many animals survive with 4 inch holes through their body.

Just saying we should be careful taking a thread full of dead animals as evidence that the combo is 100% effective.

Nothing is 100%. Where did that statement come from?

It likely has some real failure rate, as all bullets/cartridges do. We don't have a "7RM success thread" to point at for an apples to apples comparison, but I imagine it would be pretty long and mostly full of successes as well.

Of course- what point are you trying to make?

 

[fwafwow]

So, 1/20 of an inch of angular shift over a 24 inch barrel becomes a 7.5 inch POI shift at 100 yards. It is very conceivable that my 3 inch 308 groups represent a 0.009 inch angular shift in the muzzle (16.5 inch barrel, considering a 1 inch group as baseline from 223) due to recoil.

The idea that 1/4 inch is no big deal is mathematically ignorant.

The mechanics of how recoil is controlled will influence the angular shift, however, the idea that it is small enough to be discounted is ridiculous. A shooters consistency in controlling recoil influences if POI will be consistent, start throwing in odd positions and that consistency goes down, resulting in PIO shifts.

Those shifts have nothing to do with anticipation, though anticipation can certainly make things worse.

Bro. That 308 recoil is clearly living rent free in your head. Or you are not tough enough to handle it. Or a combination of both. Man up!