Does it really matter which $3000 scope you buy?

[KevinDean]

Just lurked for 2 hours after researching scopes to replace a few of my junkers. Looking at MK5, Vortex III, Nightforce, Trijicon etc..

As we know, you ask 10 professionals about which chainsaw, which drug reduces cholesterol or who makes the best rifle scope and you'll get 15 answers. I found repeated arguments over which scope is holding zero (not to mention all the other specs we want) and lots of extreme opinions looking for general ideas.

I'm surprised that ANY of these scopes might be expected to hold a "perfect" zero over months, weeks or even days as there is so much more involved in making that happen (rifle, ammo, weather, mount, scope etc.). At least what a long range shooter might consider zero.

I'll narrow my thought to just a scope's mechanical assembly. I've built 24 bit absolute optical encoders for space telescopes and single digit micro-radian per degree C pointing stability laser systems. To even test these systems over a specified temp range requires severe stability from low CTE materials like invar coupled to high resolution sensors. Everything is jelly when you're looking sub milliradian and that is exactly what long range shooters are doing.

Have none of the trade groups gathered a selection of these scopes and sent them to a test house to get shock/vibe/temp flogged for stability as it is not hard to do. Surely there has been military testing because there are mil specs for optics.

So barring some miracle scope, they will ALL lose their zero at some microradian level that nobody is sharing. Until they do we're left with durability, optical quality, ergonomics, functionality and maybe warranty?

 

[Dioni A]

Rifle Scope Field Evaluations

rokslide.com

You have a lot more reading to do.

 

[2-Stix]

NF if you want it to work...I just saved you a lot of reading...but as Dioni A said...you have lots of reading.

 

[sdupontjr]

What do you intend to do with it? Makes all the difference in the world depending on what is your intended purpose for the optic. Dialing (a lot), target precision, low light hunting, open prairie. All these factors play into which optic I would choose.

 

[MallardSX2]

Yes. It really does matter.

It's likely the last scope I will every buy before the divorce.

$3000 for a scope. Lord have mercy.

 

[JGRaider]

I hunt wide open country and have for 40+ years. The day I need a $3000 scope to kill something is the day I take up golf.

 

[RockAndSage]

Have none of the trade groups gathered a selection of these scopes and sent them to a test house to get shock/vibe/temp flogged for stability as it is not hard to do. Surely there has been military testing because there are mil specs for optics.

So barring some miracle scope, they will ALL lose their zero at some microradian level that nobody is sharing

OP, it's cool to see someone here that has your degree of experience in optical sciences, and I genuinely hope that over time you can add to our understandings of things at the higher end of it all. There are a couple of aspects to all this that are being conflated though, that are understandable.

First, you're right that in the context of rifle scopes, that at the microradian level they will all lose their zero - as you noted, coefficients of thermal expansion are a thing. And these things are built for field realities of rifles and individual consumers, not tanks or aerospace - meaning they'll be far lighter and less rigid, at least with current materials science. That said, at the microradian level, very few people are capable of noticing that level of difference in any given condition - and it seems those changes in zero likely return to where they were when the conditions that gun, ammo, and scope are returned. Regardless, click adjustments alone on a scope might be a full order of magnitude or greater beyond the levels you're talking about. What you're looking for is the reasonable level of capability that you the shooter, your gun, and your ammo are capable of utilizing.

The second thing though, is that there is virtually nothing in the civilian gun world beyond ammo that seems to have any standardized testing body, testing specifications, or standardized tests like ASTMs by which anything can be judged or publicized. Accuracy, reliability, durability, precision, etc - they're all subjective and without objective, standardized measures of rating.

It's the greatest shortcoming of the industry, and allows for a torrential sewer of charlatanism.

 

[doc holiday13]

Have you looked at the used scope market? Lots of great high end scopes on discount. Scopes are fairly easy to rehab if they start going bad

 

[KenLee]

Yes. It really does matter.

It's likely the last scope I will every buy before the divorce.

$3000 for a scope. Lord have mercy.

Yes. It really does matter.

It's likely the last scope I will every buy before the divorce.

$3000 for a scope. Lord have mercy.

For 2 decades I thought any scope over $200 was insane. Next 2 decades I thought over $500 was insane. 4 seasons ago, I bought an alpha scope and have since thought that I should have bought one 2 decades earlier.
Divorces are generally worth every dime and effort.

 

[Macintosh]

Maybe it should be the first scope after the divorce?